"The Buffalo Harvest" - Fact or Fiction?

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:47 am

Pete:

You can read "The Buffalo Harvest," for free, right here:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resourc ... uffalo.htm

This may get me in some trouble, but since you asked..

As for Frank Mayer and “The Buffalo Harvest,” I WANT to believe. I really do. I’d like to think that this wonderful man has left us with a well-written and account of his experiences. But, to put it mildly, there are some problems with “The Buffalo Harvest.” It’s not just the .45-120 issue. Kenny W. addressed that one - Mayer could have been talking about the .45-120-2 7/8 cartridge. And it’s not just the mention of antelope skin used for bullet patching, (although he clearly says “antelope buckskin” and not “intestines.”) There is no single, fatal flaw in the story. Rather, it’s little bits and pieces that don’t quite add up.

What’s the problem with “The Buffalo Harvest?” There were said to have been about 5,000 or so buffalo hunters who plied the hide trade from 1870 to 1883. Many of these hunters have left written stories, stories which can be verified and cross-checked against each other as well as other existing written records. Frank Mayer just sort of appeared out of nowhere, 60 years after the fact. Despite the fact that he worked on the buffalo range from 1872 to 1879 (he mentions “nine years of hard work and sweat” - a LONG time in that business) Frank’s name is not mentioned by any of his contemporaries in their accounts. It doesn’t show up on any of the old receipts that still exist.

A few verifiable names are ‘dropped’ in “The Buffalo Harvest,” the most notable being his bet with Bill Tilghman along with a brief mention of Billy Dixon. Isn’t it strange the Mayer doesn’t mention rubbing elbows with the Mooar brothers, “Brick” Bond, John Cook, Jim White (among dozens of others) somewhere along the trail or on the streets of Dodge City?

Some minor points, in no particular order:

“We professionals didn't run buffalo at all, but we called ourselves buffalo runners, never hunters.” Did any of the other buffalo hunters call themselves “runners?”

Frank Mayer mentions selling his hides on consignment to Wells Fargo. No mention made of Conrad & Rath, Lobenstein or other well-known hide dealers. Did any of the other hunters mention Wells Fargo? Did Wells Fargo even deal in buffalo hides?

Why didn’t he bring up Adobe Walls? Even if Frank Mayer had no part in the battle itself, wouldn’t you think he’d have at least something to say about it?

There are only a few vague mentions made of specific details such as times, places and kill numbers. Reading stories from other buffalo hunters, you’ll often see something like this: “It was early June. We camped on the north branch of the Canadian River, about 2 miles north of Dead Horse Butte . The next day I found good shooting. My efforts ended with 28 cows, 17 bulls and an even dozen kips, having expended a total of 62 cartridges.” Most hunters (myself included) seem to have this “thing” about details.

Here’s one that really bugs me. I don’t recall any other accounts of the military giving away free a ammunition to civilians. Did any of the other stories written by buffalo hunters mention free ammo, courtesy of Uncle Sam? Wouldn’t there be more than a good chance of such ammo ending up in the hands of the enemy? The Army encourage soldiers serving on the frontier to hunt on their free time. The idea was to hone riding and shooting skills. Nevertheless, the soldiers had to reimburse the army for any ammunition used.

And then there is the 20X scope. Did such a scope exist in those days? Given the sort of optics and construction available at the time, would a 20 or 30X long tube scope even be useable for hunting?

Costs: Mayer says “In those days (1871-1875) rifles were expensive, for they would cost you from $100 to $150.” This is 2 -3X the catalog price of a Sharps sporting rifle.

I’m not questioning Frank Mayer’s integrity. At the very worst he spun us all a great yarn. And it may not even be Frank Mayer’s doing. “The Buffalo Harvest” was published a few years after Mayer’s passing. It was written by Charles B. Roth, the same guy who published “Hidalgo.” That story has been carefully researched - and ripped to shreds - by historians. It turns out that the legendary horseman, Frank Hopkins, was in reality a ditch digger in Philadelphia! It’s very possible that Roth had a knack for enhancing stories. We know for sure that Frank Mayer was a real person who lived in the right time and place. Without a doubt Frank Mayer was every bit the ‘rifle crank’ he’s made out to be. There is no reason to doubt he was a crack shot and that he worked as a market hunter.

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:27 pm

It will be VERY interesting to see how "The Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters and Skinners" deals with Frank Mayer!

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:31 pm

Hidehunter: your information about Chas. B. Roth is right on the $$; however, it is more often than not overlooked by some of the more ardent defenders on Mayer.

When we had a discussion of this thread before, I do believe that others brought forth similar information about Roth.

A talented "ghost writer" can be very hard to detect.....

RMulhern · Post by **RMulhern** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:55 pm

Hidehunter

<<Costs: Mayer says “In those days (1871-1875) rifles were expensive, for they would cost you from $100 to $150.” This is 2 -3X the catalog price of a Sharps sporting rifle.>>

Rather than address all the issues you've "raised"...I'll do just this one! The above scenario plays right along with the good ole American axiom of "scalping"! From ballgame tickets....to the price of fuel today! I'm quite certain "scalping" was popular at the edges of the plains as well!

buffalocannon · Post by **buffalocannon** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:25 pm

Dear HideHunter

I was talking to a fellow once about Mayer and my friend surmised that when Mayer referred to antelope hide as a "patch" he may have actually meant a "wad." Small thing I suppose. For myself, an amateur Western "historian" and lover of all that is the "West", I prefer to accept all that makes up the "myth" of the West at face value. I am happier that way. I still enjoy all the old Western movies from the 40s, 50s, 60s etc. because I have accepted all the Western "myths" as fact. Believing that Quigley was a real person really puts lead in my pencil.

Sean Thornton · Post by **Sean Thornton** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:24 pm

Frank Mayar had the luxury of outliving most or all of his contemporaries. With that said he also had the “last word” so to speak on the subject as an eye witness to the “Buffalo Hunt” of the decade of the 1870s and into the 1880s. His is an interesting story that makes for a good historic novel. Is it fact or fiction? Well maybe the best answer is, yes and yes. Any book about “Buffalo Hunting” and Sharps rifles has got to be good.

You all have a great day. I think I may head out to the “Buffalo Range” and put the .45-110 to work on thinning the herds. If you have never read the fictional historic novel “The Adventures of Buffalo Buck: Buffalo Runner” I must say it is an excellent read.
Check it out at www.buffalobuck.com

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:34 am

Sharpsman: Consulting "The Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters and Skinners," the price of a heavy barreled Sharps at Rath's was $40 to $60 delivered.

-BUT-

Just like today, the purchase price of a new rifle was only part of the cost. The story which mentions the rifle price went on to say that the typical buffalo hunter bought powder, lead, bullet moulds, primers and so on with his new rifle. The typical total cost was well over $100. So, just like the .45-120, Frank Mayer could be SPOT ON or 'full of it' - depending on how you care to look at it. Here again, his writings cannot prove the issue one way or the other. Makes things all the more interisting, if you ask me..

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:03 pm

Another possible factor is demand, and of course supply. After the gold strike in California a Colt 1849 .36 calibre Pocket Pistol sold for around $12.00 from Colt. In San Francisco, during the gold rush, the same pistol could cost upwards of $250.00 to $500.00 because of the tremendous demand and the dealers could get those prices. Could the price of a Sharps Business Rifle, or other rifle, have possibly experienced a similar if not as dramatic an inflation? Prices do tend to assend to the level of demand.

Not an explanation, just a thought.

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:57 pm

Since none of us were there (much as I would have like to have been...) we have to rely on the written records. From what I have read it appears that Sharps rifles were widely available on the buffalo range.

It's important to put the buffalo hunting era in it's proper perspective. As much as we like to think of the great buffalo hunt as having taken place in the wild frontier, it really didn't. At least not in the sense of the mountain man era or even the California gold rush era. The railroad changed everything. By the 1870's, if you didn't find what you liked - at the price you wanted to pay - on the shelf you could order it. You could make out your order to Sharps (even telegraph it in if you were in a hurry) and in a few weeks you could have a new rifle in hand. Just like today. Maybe better - you didn't have to wait months and didn't need to do an FFL transfer!

The hunters treated it like the business it was. They were aware of prices and no doubt shopped around and haggled. Dealers might get a premium because they had it on hand. But it was hard to get away with wholescale 'scalping' with crates of new rifles arriving on every train. Just like WAL MART, dealers who bought in quantity got substantial discounts. Conrad and Rath were allowed a 30% discount by Sharps on account of their volume. The 1875 catalog price of a Sharps sporting rifle w/set trigger and heavy barrel was something like $38 or so. Figuring in the volume discount, $50.00 "out the door" would cover expressage charges and yeild a tidy profit.

RMulhern · Post by **RMulhern** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:02 pm

Hidehunter

<<They were aware of prices and no doubt shopped around and haggled. >>

Yeah...that's all well and good Hidehunter....except for a man in a hurry! When the standard "daily wage" averaged $1.23 a day....and with hides selling for what they were at the time...you don't have to have a PHD to figure out what could be LOST.....in the time it spent to haggle....or wait weeks for the train to come down the track! More $$$$$$ have been lost by folks I've known in my lifetime worrying about what something was gonna cost 'em.....rather than...."what's this gonna make me?"

If I had been wantin to shoot buffalo RIGHT NOW.....that $38.00 would have been "peanuts" and I'd a paid triple for the right rifle....and while you was haggling, nitpickin, and waiting for the train to come in....I'd a been countin hides!

Personally...you couldn't get the .45/110 Kirk made for me for double the money I paid for it!!

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:59 pm

And, there are other accounts of Sharps rifles bringing $100 or more in Dodge Ciy, KS. There was a fascinating story posted here on the forum of just such and account of a fellow just getting started in the business and the seller had several sharps rifles, all over $100.00 If I remember the story right, the fellow passed and used his old muzzleloader or maybe it was a trapdoor to get started. I believe Frank Mayer's book is probably very accurate, remember they had different names for things than we do, such as wads or patches or other things. Antelope skin would be very easily cut into "patches" / "wads", so why wouldn't they. They probably didn't have a big supply of "veggie fiber" on the plains to make wads out of.

pete · Post by **pete** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:40 pm

Hidehunter;
That was a well thought out response. I was just glancing through my John Cook book and he says "hunters" several times. Somebody should have corrected him about using that term. Oh well what did he know.
I'll have to print out the Mayer writings since I can't stand to read long articles on the computer. I glanced through it too and Mayer sure had a phenominally high shot to kill ratio.

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:17 am

Shapsman - Where did you find the biographical information about Frank Mayer that you posted? I have a copy of the December, 1934 issue of "The American Rifleman" with an (excellent) article written by Mayer. But, just like "The Buffalo Harvest," he gives little background information on himself. Maybe folks with dignity don't go around talking about themselves all that much.

Hidehunter · Post by **Hidehunter** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:21 am

Next Question - Why do you suppose Frank Mayer and "The Buffalo Harvest" generates such interest?

RMulhern · Post by **RMulhern** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:54 am

Hidehunter

I've got FOUR of the artricles from the NRA...where Mayer wrote for them. The biographical info comes from these.