Over powder wads.

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martinibelgian
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by martinibelgian »

Nor any other wad when the base is clean and dry.
TexasMac
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by TexasMac »

I certainly agree that if the bullet base if perfectly clean a wad won't stick. But I don't go to the trouble of cleaning bases with a solvent. The base is quickly wiped on a paper towel after being lubed which does not removed 100% of the lube. Therefore if there's any possibility at all of the wad sticking to the bullet I'd much prefer it be only .003" thick rather than the .030" or .060", hence the reason I use the additional thin wad cut from printer paper. That .003" wad measures almost nothing compared to a 540gr bullet. I have a precision lab. scale with a resolution of 0.01gr (1/100 of a grain). So I measured the weight of 10 of the wads combined at 1.3grs or 0.13gr/wad. Therefore, even if it does stick I can't imagine it having any effect stuck to a 540gr bullet.

BTW, since I had the scale setup I thought I'd also weigh the following wads:
.060" .40 cal vegi: 1.4grs
.060" .40 cal poly: 2.0grs
.060" .45 cal vegi: 1.8grs
.060" .45 cal poly: 2.6grs

Wayne
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TexasMac
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by TexasMac »

I forgot to mention the other reason for the thin wad. I know for a fact that even if the base is clean, lube can wick or migrate to the base given sufficient time, especially in hot condition which will accelerate the process. Of course the rate of wicking is somewhat dependent on the consistency of the lube. I use White Lightning which is relatively soft compared to some others.

Wayne
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trapper
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by trapper »

seem to me, a thicker heavier wad would have less tendency to stick to the bullet versus a thin paper wad. am I wrong? I guess I don't understand the use of a paper wad. At short ranges it probably is no big deal to have the paper wad stuck to the bullet, but long range? I would think anything stuck to the bullet would not be good. Am I missing something?

Trapper
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TexasMac
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by TexasMac »

trapper wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:06 pm seem to me, a thicker heavier wad would have less tendency to stick to the bullet versus a thin paper wad. am I wrong? I guess I don't understand the use of a paper wad. At short ranges it probably is no big deal to have the paper wad stuck to the bullet, but long range? I would think anything stuck to the bullet would not be good. Am I missing something?
Trapper
Trapper,

Here's my "take" on the subject. For the sake of this discussion let's assume that there's sufficient lube on the base that either the thin or thick wad will stick. I agree with you that the thicker/heavier wad will be thrown off well before the thin one. And fact the thin one may stick to the bullet all the way to the target. In that case I don't believe the thin one will have any effect on accuracy. Remember, this is a paper thin wad - some use wads cut out of newspaper print - you can't get much thinner. But even if the thick/heavier wad only sticks to the base for a very short distance it has a much better chance of affecting the bullets path. Any deviation in the flight early will have a significant affect down range. Now, let's assume both are thrown off early, which do you think will have the most impact on downrange accuracy?

Wayne
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trapper
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by trapper »

I see, A little bit of bad is good a whole lot of bad is not.

Trapper
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martinibelgian
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by martinibelgian »

Wayne,
I'm still not convinced by your logic. A thin paper wad flagging around on the base of the bullet all the way to the target cannot be good for accuracy. Weight isn't the issue, rather the potential 'parachute effect'.
And if lube will wick down, why would it stop at the paper wad, and not stick both to the bullet?
kwilliams
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by kwilliams »

Over the years I have had the the opportunity in different states to recover bullets from berms, both PP and GG. It is astounding what one can find. Even out to 1200 yds I have found GG wads attached, and/or remnants of the paper patch stuck to the bases or driven into a cup base. Surely some of the issue is lube choice, too hard or "fusable paper" And questionable loading techniques play a role for sure. In my case I try to start with a clean GG wiped base, but even shooting on my ranch I find most poly wads falling short and then will find one 2-3 times father out and I use a news print disc under bullet base. My own PP dry wrap bullets can be found at the 200 yd berm with the mystery trace of paper adhering also. So goes the endless experimenting!
kw
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desert deuce
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by desert deuce »

OK, newsprint and poly wads have been found stuck to bullet bases. What about veg wads or felt wads or felt gasket material on bullet bases down range ?
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kwilliams
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by kwilliams »

Cannot give all the explanations, but start at the firing line, start walking to the targets and notice the wad dispersal that seems to start from about 20 feet, and it keeps going, going, and going. I have had the chance to view them on the Quigley range.
kw
gunlaker
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by gunlaker »

The other day I was shooting my .45-2.6 paper patch rifle using Kenny Wasserburger's wad stack. Interestingly I found all of the felt wads at almost exactly the same distance. The patching paper was all lying on the ground right at the muzzle, and all of the felt wads were all in a narrow band at about 20 feet away +/- about 2 feet. Interesting to see them all so close together.

When shooting PP bullets with just LDPE wads, I have on many occasions had the LDPE wad blow right back onto my shooting mat so I can say that in general they aren't going far. At least most of them :-). I've never once had that happen with GG bullets for whatever reason.

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Shadow 4
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by Shadow 4 »

I've found poster board wads at the 500 yd diamond. Never a poly, or fiber, nor a "newsprint", or the like, wad
As for any further out, haven't tried to find/noticed any, noticed the poster board wad because it was fluorescent green, & I knew who it belonged to.

While testing from a bench, my fiber wads all seem to be close in distance, 0-10 yrds

gunlaker wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:44 pm The other day I was shooting my .45-2.6 paper patch rifle using Kenny Wasserburger's wad stack. Interestingly I found all of the felt wads at almost exactly the same distance. The patching paper was all lying on the ground right at the muzzle, and all of the felt wads were all in a narrow band at about 20 feet away +/- about 2 feet. Interesting to see them all so close together.

When shooting PP bullets with just LDPE wads, I have on many occasions had the LDPE wad blow right back onto my shooting mat so I can say that in general they aren't going far. At least most of them :-). I've never once had that happen with GG bullets for whatever reason.

Chris.
Dry patch or wet patching?
I also have had poly wads "come back to me", occasionally on the cheek, never a fiber or any other wad

kwilliams wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:52 am My own PP dry wrap bullets can be found at the 200 yd berm with the mystery trace of paper adhering also. So goes the endless experimenting!
kw
Also to you, is the "trace" located on the base or the side? Do you "twist" or "fold" the base?
Also, quantify "trace". Are you talking the entire, most of or simply some oddball speck of paper on the base?
Do you on occasion, lick, spit on, or otherwise moisten your dry patch because it won't quite "lay down tight" like you want it?

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desert deuce
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by desert deuce »

Gunlaker rides again. This time he sparked a memory and a reason why I load like I do.

Was engaged in that abhorrent activity that borders on cheating at a BPCR silhouette match, I was practicing at the silhouette range. I know, it is not Friday but I do hear that confession is good for the soul.

I was, as I recall, shooting a Shiloh in 40-65 on the big bore silhouette range at Tucson Rifle Club. There was a very light breeze more of less in my face.

I had fired quite a few shots and had run out of ammo so when I got up to start removing equipment from the line I noticed on the concrete walk way beside me were a few of the over powder wads from the ammunition I had been shooting that morning. In looking around I found some just in front of the firing line and a couple behind me.

That day I was using a single .025" thick card wad made from a Tropicana orange carton with the outside waxed surface against the base of the bullet. Pretty simple to see an orange over powder wad on the concrete or in the dirt.
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gunlaker
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by gunlaker »

Shadow those were dry patched but I've seen the same thing wet patched. I've also only ever had poly wads come back at me. I swear that often when shooting GG bullets I see the newspaper wad fluttering in the air when I see the muzzle flash go off.

Chris.
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Re: Over powder wads.

Post by Kurt »

Shadow 4 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:47 pm I've found poster board wads at the 500 yd diamond. Never a poly, or fiber, nor a "newsprint", or the like, wad
As for any further out, haven't tried to find/noticed any, noticed the poster board wad because it was fluorescent green, & I knew who it belonged to.


That's just for to know that that bullet made it to that @#$%^& diamond. :D
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