Weather proofing your rifle

[Gunny]

mc,

Yep as I said opinionated, and full of assumptions. And wrong in both cases.

Weather or not the name Gunny is a username I just choose or one that was earned and given to me by my men in the Corps is none of your damn business, dont make assumptions there.

You say and I quote "True. It is not uncommon for shooters who are knowledgeable about stock finishing to prefer doing that for themselves.
However, you will probably agree that those people go ahead and FINISH their stocks. They probably don't carry them around in the rain until they have done that."

Once again your "assumptions" are leading you astray. There is no requirement for anyone purchasing an unfinished stock from anyone to have any experiance in stock finishing, so we can throw the word "Knowledgeable" out of your quote as it don't apply. Then once again in your quote you make another misguided statement, that shows you should be listening and not talking, when you say. " However, you will probably agree that those people go ahead and FINISH their stocks. They probably don't carry them around in the rain until they have done that." This is simple not the case some folks do indeed carry those stocks around unfinished. One of the very best BPCR competitors and the only winner of the Minuete of Angle Challange in both scope class as well as Iron sight class Dan Theadore carried one of his CPA's around and shot dozens of matches some in the rain with an unfinished and even unsanded stock.

I make reference to Mr Theadore simple to make the point that nobody knows for sure what is and what isn't going on sometimes. I personally think it is a little silly to carry around a unfinished stock, but that by god is his choice and not mine.

These message boards on the internet are a strange thing in more ways than one sometimes. Anyone, anyone at all can come on one of them and give advice "RIGHT or WRONG" about just about any subject. In this case we have a board sponsered and paid for by Shiloh Rifle Co and the Bryan family. This site is for the enjoyment and learning of folks who are like minded and want to learn and disciss these old single shot "Sharps" rifles in this case Sharps, and BPCR in genereal.

Now with that said it would seem to me Mr. montana charlie, a person who admits to having either "No" knowledge or at least "Limited" knowledge about BPCR. Would try and reframe from trying to get folks to substitute his knowledge from the mans knowledge that builds these rifles.

Gunny

[Brent]

Man, I ain't wanting to step out into a pissing match w/o my raingear at least, but I do hunt a lot in the rain and even more in wet snow which seems to be worse than rain for some reason. Often in the field for a week at a shot too. So, I guess I've carried my Shiloh in all sorts of things a lot more than many folks do.

FWIW, there are a ton of things you can do and all of them will work to some extent but for my money these are the things that work for me:

A wood finish made from a mixture of spar varnish, linseed oil, and turpentine, once a year for life. At least once, use this on the inside of the stock, including screw holes and under the buttplate - being sure that nothing puddles in corners of the inletting. Wipe out any excess after 15 minutes or so.

A protective coating on the steel of car wax, paste wax, or better yet, TopKote (sold to protect steel tools, find it at Woodsmith Shops and similar places) helps - but it is not infallible. Nothing is 'cept maybe embalming your rifle in teflon or something like that.

Good oil on the outside of the steel once a day in wet weather - I like NAPA transmission oil. BreakFree works well too. So do a million others I imagine. Don't go crazy with the stuff. Just an oily rag over all the metal surfaces will suffice.

A light oil like Hoppie's #9 early in the morning (to clear out the heavier oil from the night before) and maybe once around noon when I take a break on a good overlook. I carry a .22 cal takedown cleaning rod with no handle for this chore. Works well after I have shot and killed something too. Of if I manage to stick the muzzle in the snow (happens more often that I would like to think). Clean your bore with it, BEFORE tracking down your game, or beginning to field dress it, or hiking home in the dark, or whatever, but clean your gun BEFORE you go home. BP fouling in weather is not a good thing - even worse in a closed damp gun case in a warm truck. Clean it again when you get home - just to be sure. You will be surprised how much better you will sleep :)

Finally, I keep my rifle outside of my tent because humidity is so high inside. I lean it against a tree, muzzle up, and slip a vinyl gun sock over it w/o closing it up at the bottom. A cloth gun slip that is a bit oily works well too, but put a plastic bag over it to keep the dew and rain off - just don't close it up.

Avoid wool gloves in the wet weather - wet wool cuts through most finishes pretty fast - if it happens though, don't worry too much. A coat or two of the varnish/oil/turp mixture will fix that at home - just like it has on guns for many many centuries now.

Anyway, this works for me, and anyone can look at my Sharps, or flinter, or highwall and decide for himself if the gun looks overly abused. For as many miles as they have traveled by foot and the weather conditions they have experienced, I would say they look just like a range-queen rifle if not better.

In the end, it's not so much weather proofing your gun that is so important, it's taking care of it out in the weather, and when you bring it home.

Brent

[dozer]

I do get into rain, mostly elk hunting. To start with all of my stocks are finished inside with the same number of coats as the outside. All iron is coated with good oil.

After the hunt, I spray the whole thing with WD40 (water displacer), including into wood/metal joints. I then wipe it down completely and stand it on it's nose in a corner and in shuch a way as any trapped WD will drain out and away from the wood. Later all metal is wiped down with good oil. Never have had any rust.

As a note, I REALLY spray the sights (tang, barrel, and front) to make sure no water is in or under them.
Doz

[Scott Tschirhart]

I had my forearm glass bedded just because of moisture issues. I will be taking my sharps to Alaska on a black bear hunt and I imagine that bothe the rifle (Big Nose Kate) and I will be plenty wet during the trip.

I imagine a can of WD40 will be along for water displacement.

On a hog hunt in deep East Texas a few years ago, we had this huge thunderstorm drench us like nobody's business.

I hung my old Marlin .45-70 muzzle down by the strap and sprayed the better part of a can of WD40 into the action and every nook and cranny I could find. Water just ran out of that rifle. I wiped everything down with an oily rag the next day and all was well.

[montana charlie]

Brent, dozer, and Scott...
Nice to see that all three of you are aware of what a good piece of wood deserves...and are willing to 'what it takes' to finish a job which may not have been completed as well as you would like.

A note that dozer and Scott might find interesting...
In the last two days of reading I came across two guys on different websites who advise against WD40 on guns.

One guy says it removes the blueing.
The other says it leaves an objectionable film.
Me, I don't know...just passing it along. But, both of them like Break Free better.
CM

[Scott Tschirhart]

Thanks Charlie,

I never really use WD 40 except to displace water. I don't think of it as a lubricant. I do use Break Free on my Shiloh.

I know that WD 40 has a reputation for killing primers.

[Ken Hartlein]

One of the best things you can do when you are ordering your Shiloh is to have the option "forearm bedding" done. That's what it's for is to keep water from getting into the forearm wood. That and break free will keep things like they should be. Works for me anyway.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Ken, that is exactly what I did. I believe it was based on your advice.

[Smokin]

montana charlie,

Just a little FWIW here. User names are somewhat of a will-o-the-wisp, a little vanity, a little nostalgia, a little hopefulness, a little wondering about how everyone else could be so darn clever. Gunny, I learned, was a sergeant major in the Marine Corps. While I have never met the man and likely never will and certainly don't need to defend a Marine, I do know that those who achive that E-9 rank are generally members of a rather impressive group of men. The handle Gunny lends a bit of a warm and fuzzy to what otherwise could have been a much more standoffish nom-de-shoot.

During part of the short time I was in the Army, I had the pleasure of working at the Engineer School at Fort Belvoir VA and while there, and in Vietnam, had the distinct honor to meet, know, and work with several sergeants major and one retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy. I was in awe of their experience, knowledge, and rank, and they saluted me. I felt that it should be the other way around, but military discipline required that the beginner lieutenant got, and returned, the salute.

All this is to say that I have become very circumspect about those whose knowledge and expertise I challenge or ignore, that is until I know more than they do and achieving this unassailable expert status has thus far easily escaped me.

[Timberlake]

Smokin,

Good post. Excellent verbage.

2d Lt US Army. Now I can understand your inability to locate Iowa. Nothing worse than a 2d Lt with a case of maps and a PFC driver with a case of the ass. I know. I was the PFC.

Good luck on your nearly shoot this weekend.

TL

[montana charlie]

Gunny, I learned, was a sergeant major in the Marine Corps...I do know that those who achive that E-9 rank are generally members of a rather impressive group of men. The handle Gunny lends a bit of a warm and fuzzy...

Interesting mix of information, Smokin.
I, too, did some 'research'...by reading back through several months of Gunny's posts. What I gathered from that made me decide not to carry on with our 'controversy'.

I did not, however, come across mention that he held the rank of Sergeant Major. That would have made me wonder why he chose 'Gunny' as a username, because...

Gunny is the common nickname applied to men who hold the rank of Gunnery Sergeant. The rank falls in the E-7 paygrade, and is (or at least used to be) the 'fork in the road' for a man on the way up through the rank structure.
From that position, one can choose to stay in the Gunnery Sergeant job-skill track which leads to the rank of Master Gunnery Sergeant (E-9) with it's 'nickname' of Master Guns...or switch to the (more administratively oriented) path which leads toward Sergeant Major (E-9).

You may be correct in that 'nostalgia' would cause a former Sergeant Major to choose a nickname which harkens back to an earlier (and fondly remembered) period in a long and successful military career.

That is entirely his business. I have no wish to quarrel with his choice...nor to argue further with him on 'qualification to advise others'.

During part of the short time I was in the Army, I had the pleasure of working at the Engineer School at Fort Belvoir VA and while there, and in Vietnam, had the distinct honor to meet, know, and work with several sergeants major and one retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy.

Your mention of Vietnam puts us in a similar age category, as I retired from the Air Force in '85. And, during the last third of my service career, I worked closely with a number of E-9 'colleages'. So, I am well aware of the 'status' men of that rank hold...in the area of military expertise.

However, stockmaking and finishing of gunstocks is not among the skills normally required to reach E-9...in any of the services. So, please explain how a discussion (or disagreement) on that subject detracts from the respect due to E-9s.
If a man has achieved an uncommon skill in the area of BCPR sillouette shooting, does that presuppose that he is an expert in stockmaking...or that he is able to divine a lack of that knowledge in strangers?

Please note that Gunny did not at any time during our discussion offer any wisdom on how to protect gunstock wood (the topic of discussion), nor did he claim any expertise in the subject. He merely denied the possibility that I might possess enough information to offer advice.
CM

[JAGG]

I have a short barreled TD that i use for most of my hunting an hiking trips in the mountians no matter what the weather is rain of shine ! I long ago melted beeswax over all the metal parts and into the inside of the stock while applying heat to both and leaving in the hot sun and firing heat keeps everything under the stock and out side wood and metal parts free of water and rust ! Auto car wax is also good if you want to try it as well ! I use it on my smokeless equipment metal and wood ! Your wood should have already be sealed before you start out with gunstock finish ! Lin- Speed works well for that ! JAGG

[Gunny]

montana charlie,

What part of "None of your Damn business" dont you understand?? Is that too difficult for you?? Or are you just to damn stupid to get the concept?? Once again your assumptions are wrong, so damn wrong you can't even imagine. I will not discuss myself in this way not here not now not ever. It's None Of Your Damn Business!! Let it go prick.

But what I will be more than happy to discuss is your total and complete ingnorance. What you have done from the very begining of this thread is try and show how knowledgeable and correct you are in your stock finishing. Well AH lets look at what you really know and what you have really said. You did say that if Kirk (the owner of Shiloh rifles) said not to remove a wet stock then you would be better going to some one else for a replacement. Lets look at this On one hand we have Kirk Bryan the owner of the Shiloh Rifle Co. Kirk builds these rifles from start to finish and oversees every aspect of these rifles from the casting of the rough piece ( Shiloh owns there own casting Co as well) to the finishing of that casting to the stocking of the wood, he then oversees the wood finish and fit of a few hundred rifles and then sees that the rifle recieves a home. On the other hand we have you, and just exactly what is you?? Well we all know for a fact that you are a person that likes to go around making "Assumptions" and that your "Assumptions" are usually wrong. We also know that you have a lot of opinions, trouble is those are just as wrong as your "Assumptions" well "charlie" or maybe that should be charlie brown, you are at least consistant and are 100% wrong.

We also know for a fact that you don't know anything about BPCR this by your own admission, there's one right thing you did. So I have a question for you. Why in hell are you so damn adamant to substitute your so called knowledge for that of a man Kirk Bryan who makes his and his familys living building one of the finest single shot rifles in the world? What makes you think that your way is superior to his. Kirk says don't remove the stock while wet. You say "Don't listen to him do it my way. I'm montana charlie from jerk water USA. I have superior knowledge I was in the Air Force dont you see!!

Just for your information since you don't know much about this sport. Most folks who purchase one of the many different single shot rifles from the BPCR era, save up and order these rifles. They opt for severeal options in these "Once In A Lifetime Rifles" When a feller decides to spend anywhere from $1,500.00 to 6 or 7 thousand dollars on a rifle they usually want it there way. One if not the most popular options is wood. Figured wood can be a beautiful thing on a custom built rifle, it can raise the value and the cost of this rifle by many hundreds of dollars, and in some cases thousands of dollars. But there is one serious problem with this figured wood. It's not very stable, and nothing is going to change that inherit quality in figured wood without drastic steps that almost ruin that beauty we choose that figured wood for in the first place. The only way to make this figured wood completly staple is to incase it in plastic. No finish and I mean NO FINISH will completely protect a piece of figured wood. All of that grain and flame, crotch figure, quilt and feather make the wood look great but. All of that figure has different densitys and expand and contract at much different rates. Flame figure when wet reacts different from quilted figure and quilted different from feather, all of these different figures can and are sometimrs present in one small piece of wood on say the forarm. Your oil finish is cool to look at and I prefer it also but I have no illusions what so ever that it protects that forarm complettly no matter who put the finish on the wood nor how they did it . And weather or not they did the inside of the wood or not. And if you are saying that you can put a oil finish on one of these stocks that will protect it abslolutly no matter the circumstance then you are just as full as crap about that as you are about every other damn thing I have seen you speak to.

Kirk Bryan says leave the stock on the rifle when it gets wet.

montana charlie brown says if your stock gets wet take it off and let it air dry, and all will be fine.

Kirk Bryan owns Shiloh and builds rifles for a living.

montana charlie brown is a new poster of a month or so and we don't know if he even owns a rifle, and if he does it probably has a synthetic stock.

Which advise are you fellow readers going to take?????

GUNNY BY GOD GUNNY!!!!!!!

[Scott Tschirhart]

For what it is worth. The buttstocks of these Shilohs are fitted very closely around complicated metal pieces.

If Kirk says not to take it off when wet, I am not going to do it. I certainly dont have the skill or patience to fit a new buttstock and it shounds like Kirk has seen this issue before.

[montana charlie]

[quote="Gunny"]montana charlie,

What part of "None of your Damn business" dont you understand??[quote]
I might ask you the same question, but I won't...because like I told Smokin...our discussion ended some time ago, .

While it's true that Smokin and I were talking 'about' you...neither of us was talking 'to' you. So, you are welcome to keep your thoughts to yourself, just as you say you prefer to do.

As for the insults...you may as well bag 'em, Gunny. 'Cause I don't intend to play that kind of idiotic game with you.
CM