paper patch chamber question

Ask Shiloh questions about your Shiloh Sharps Rifle.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

Post Reply
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:55 pm

paper patch chamber question

Post by Bulseyetom » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:32 pm

What characteristics are different between a "paper patch chamber" and a regular chamber? I assume that the paper patch chamber is tight necked so that the fired case is not expanded too much so that a patched bullet can be finger seated. On a similar note, were the Farmington 50-90 rifles suitable for paper patching? I am wanting a dedicated paper patched rifle for hunting and even though I am getting better at understanding paper patching requirements the more I load, I am still a novice. My 40-70 SS Hepburn has about 0.300 freebore but I have a long based dual diameter that is showing promise. My 40-65 Hiwall has a huge chamber and would require a bullet patched to 0.415 to be a snug fit in a fired case and the bore is 0.413. I haven't ordered a mould for that barrel. Thanks for any advice. Tom

Posts: 633
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 7:48 pm
Location: Saint Cloud, MN

Re: paper patch chamber question

Post by MikeT » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:12 pm

If the bore diameter is 0.413, then what is the groove diameter?
Keep on hav'n fun!

User avatar
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 12:23 am
Location: elko nv.

Re: paper patch chamber question

Post by powderburner » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:56 pm

My rifles are right at 10 tho tighter than standard.
The simple formula is : wrapped bullet size id and chamber dia is od of brass. The case does not need to expand to release the bullet so cut it just enough it will chamber and extract.
My shiloh 45 is 471 at the case mouth and i ise a .442 bullet with 2 tho paper. It takes a slight pressure to push a bullet into a clean fired case.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T

User avatar
Distant Thunder
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:46 am
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: paper patch chamber question

Post by Distant Thunder » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:57 pm


There are many types of paper patch chambers being offered today, some are better for certain purposes than others. Some would be better suited to hunting loads and other are better suited to target loads. Think carefully about what your rifle will be used for and research what type of chamber would be best for that purpose.

My .40-65 has a chamber similar to your .40-70 SS, it has a long .375" freebore. With a properly designed 2-Diameter paper patch bullet it is very accurate. So you are on the right track with your .40. Almost any chamber can be made to shoot a properly designed paper patch bullet.

I also have a Shiloh Sharps .45-90 with their standard grease groove chamber and it shoots straight bore diameter paper patch bullets with excellent accuracy. I have won a number of Creedmoor matches with this rifle.

Last year I had Shiloh put a new barrel on my old Shiloh .45-70. I wanted it chambered for .44-77 specifically for paper patch bullets and I had to sort through a number of chambering options trying to decide what would be best. In the end I went with the Shiloh standard grease groove chamber and it has work out very bit as good as I had hoped for, very accurate with a number of different paper patch bullets, both 2-D and straight bore diameter.

In my opinion the Shiloh standard chamber is the best you can put in a rifle, no question. And that is true whether you are shooting grease groove or paper patch bullets.

I also have a custom built Remington-Hepburn in .45-70 that has a special paper patch chamber designed by Brent Danielson. It is a tight chamber, fired brass will accept a .451" diameter bullet and no bigger. My bore diameter pp bullets are sized to .4505" and fit perfectly into the cases and the bore. It does not have the long shallow angle from the outside of the case mouth into the rifling like is very popular today and was used at least in some rifles in the 1870s. My rifle does shoot very well with it's 45* chamber stop followed by just a 3* per side tapered leade from the .458 groove diameter to the .450 bore diameter. The idea behind the design was to minimize the bullet distortion as it moves from the case mouth and bumps up into the grooves. The design works very well and I have won more matches with this rifle than all my other rifles combined.

For hunting there are some who say the 7* angle from the outside of the case mouth is a good choice and it may be. I do not have any experience with that chamber.

This has been my experience over the last 30 years of shooting BPCR and 12 years of that with strictly paper patch bullets.

In the end it is your rifle and you have to decide what is best for you want to do with it. Just research the matter thoroughly before you decide. Others are no different than I am, they will push you toward what they believe has work well for them. Good luck!
Jim Kluskens
aka Distant Thunder

Eric Johanen
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:27 pm

Re: paper patch chamber question

Post by Eric Johanen » Mon May 17, 2021 8:20 am

DT, have been following your posts with the 44-77 with great interest. Nice to see you are getting results with the standard chamber some of which applies to my tight 'Loomer" chamber. I plan to work more with a hunting load using the Brooks modified Medford design Sidetracked developing a target paper and steel load with a Brooks 485 grain traditional Sharps style bullet the Kurt sent me .Good results and great fun! Patching the Medford with thin paper and seating just short of the fouling works nicely. 2 years ago at a steel match I was able to fire 19 shots without any fouling control but it was under very humid conditions. Need to sort out the load for use under more normal conditions.. I think it can be done. Now another project is beginning as I finally took delivery of my Shiloh M1877 in 45-70 using Brent's chamber. Beautiful rifle and fired formed loads worked well and can now get down to work developing a load for it. My health continues to decline so I can not get as much range time as I would wish but we do what we can. Keep developing the loads and keep posting on your progress.

Post Reply