Zack's article in Winter of 2019 in BPC News

[charlie young]

I have no idea how many times i've went back and read this article. Well worth the time for anyone. "How I Load The 45-90 for Long Range". To be honest until last year, before Brian's postal match I had never shot a Shiloh from a bench. All load work was off of sticks at 900-1000 yds. This coming from my archery days of, shoot in practice the way you will be hunting or shooting in competition. But that being said, I did come to the assumption that maybe this close range 200 yd. shooting had some merit. Wind and mirage certainly don't play into it as much. And that dang bench and bags are just plain solid.

I'm not saying that I follow every step that was used in that article, but in a more roundabout way I get the rifles to shoot to my satisfaction. His results and mine kind of end up the same. Well, maybe not the last paragraph! We just have different goals as far as what we want the end result to be!

I guess my question is after we get our rifles to shoot at 800-1000 yds and then we decide to tweak it, what is the best way.
I'm kind of thinking going back to the bench and shooting at 200 to 300 yds might be the answer to get the group tightened up, if possible, we already know the bullet works good at 800-1000. Also, how much if any difference is there from shooting off of bags or bench cross sticks than how you shoot off of sticks when you wind up on the ground.

[Kurt]

Charlie, here is my thought on this.
I agree with you shoot the practice the way you would shoot the match. Shoot a solid rest working up loads.
Where I am I don't have anything farther than 200 yards since the Farm was sold so I do my final development at the shoots like the Quigley and some of the other matches and I find my 200 yard load developments are pretty much in line for the Gong shoots and the Lodi 800, 900 and the 1000.
When shooting off sticks now I have to shoot sitting, cant get down prone anymore, well I guess I can get down but cant get back up and no I cant hold center like shooting off the bench and what I have found putting one out in left or right field or over the top it's usually that nobody likes to admit, the unconscious flinch that I have never thought I had until I heard a loud click of of the sear releasing at halve cock. This is where I feel the bad shots come from and not from a load developed at 200 yards.
If my spotter marks the hits in the white or just dancing around the white spot and the next relay I get 50% it's me, not the load or rifle.
I wish I had a back yard like you have to further develop my loads but it would be off the bench and practice off the sticks.

Kurt

[desert deuce]

Boy Howdy Charlie Young, just wish you were going to be at the Desert International Match at Phoenix next month. It is extremely difficult to convey some things in writing in such a way that the reader can grasp fully the content. I think that once I realized that the rifle and the target were way smarter than this shooter progress developed maybe materialized is a better word. However, it is still a journey with no realistic perfect destination is sight. And try as anyone may I cannot be convinced that there is any better measure of success or failure than is realized in shoulder to shoulder shooting in the crucible of competition as the sole objective measure with the rifleman being the determining factor. The rifle and load can be near perfect and the rifleman still screw things up. I have learned this through personal experience.

[Shadow 4]

I develop loads from a bench w/bench cross sticks or prone w/cross sticks, @ 2-300 yds to start, then stretch it out.
If it doesn't group @ 2 & 300 & it's not moving fast enough to fight off the atmospheric wolves at 800-1200 yds, the failures are easy to spot

Developed a few with a scope, prefer the pin point hold I can get with it. Probably use it more

Southeastern Montana:
As far as learning wind & mirage reading skills, if you shoot in Southeastern Montana, you will shoot in the wind & when that 4'x4' steel target @ 1000 yds, waves in the breeze like a nylon flag, you'll begin to understand what that bitch Mariah is like

Your opportunities to shoot in the wind & mirage will be plentiful. The actual days to test a load around here to see if it'll group is about 1 in 100 days If you're standing outside here, you're standing in the wind

I guess my question is after we get our rifles to shoot at 800-1000 yds and then we decide to tweak it, what is the best way.
I'm kind of thinking going back to the bench and shooting at 200 to 300 yds might be the answer to get the group tightened up, if possible, we already know the bullet works good at 800-1000.

Charlie,
On this, I'm of the opinion that I can't "tighten" up my group developing a load at 900 yds. My reason/rational? Well, is it the load or the atmospheric wolves between me & 900 yds, that's a lot of wolves. Not so many wolves to 'Shoot through" @ 2 or 300 yds. I "Tighten" up at 2 or 300, & make sure it's in the velocity pocket I prefer for the long distances, then take it for a walkabout


FWIW, Charlie doesn't flinch, It's more of a forward surge, & after the click, weird, I know. I usually tell him I saw that, & Charlie usually hopes I was the only one

[kwilliams]

"The actual days to test a load around here to see if it'll group is about 1 in 100 days."

So so true, I been trying to wring out some loads in 2 rifles for months. Somedays shooting has to be done at 7 am or 4:30 pm when their is some moderation to the big blast, but then the lighting is terrible.
kw

[desert deuce]

No brag, just facts. Here in Southern Arizona it can be a challenge to find a day that a fellow should not go shooting due to weather.

Looking at 71F and 5-6 mph winds tomorrow for our next range day.

Well yes we do have summer, but, it is a dry heat.

[Tomklinger]

Gentlemen,
Down here in Florida I’ve found that the wet dense air of 90%+ humidity moves your bullet around a lot more than dry air. A 10 mph. cross wind at 95% humidity moves your bullet more than a 20 mph. crosswind at 14% humidity. More drop,spindrift, etc. humidity has a lot of effect. We may have less wind speed down here but, it’s a lot different than dry climates. FWIW.
Tom

[gunlaker]

No brag, just facts. Here in Southern Arizona it can be a challenge to find a day that a fellow should not go shooting due to weather.

Looking at 71F and 5-6 mph winds tomorrow for our next range day.

Well yes we do have summer, but, it is a dry heat.

I think an Arizona summer would pretty much cause this Northerner to burst into flame as soon as I exited the air conditioned confines of my pickup

Arizona in March sure is nice though. I will miss going to that match this year.

We've get a lot of poor shooting days in winter here but that's nearly done now. Last few times I have been to the range it's been 38 degrees. Pretty nice really. I do miss the lack of wind in the winter months though. The black powder smoke hangs in the air forever and I don't make too many friends amongst the TR crowd.

Chris.

[desert deuce]

Being from the NE Florida Coast , born and raised, I too am familiar with humidity and hurricanes and 62 inches average rainfall a year.

Remembering a Long Range Match at Lodi when I was shooting on a relay that it rained, sleeted and snowed (all three) the entire record fire. Was cold too. I had to add the "Cold Too" because some Arizona Shoooters may not realize that while it is sleeting and snowing it is also cold.

Which is why I choose to live in Southern Arizona average and have learned to endure 340 days a year sunshine.

Hopefully in 2023 Deadeye and Gunlaker can make their triumphant return to Ben Avery in the Great Sonoran Desert.

[DeadEye]

This was us the last time we were there. It was great but after spending 150 days there all winter it only left us 32 days for all the summer shoots since we non-immigrant aliens are only allowed 182 days a year. Nice thought though DD.

Paul

IMG_0052.JPG

[art ruggiero]

that's easy; just come in from mexico, stay as long as you want get free air fare and money art

[gunlaker]

I hope it works out. I know that my wife would love to spent a little more time in the Phoenix area too.

Chris.

[desert deuce]

Deadeye and Gunlaker, beginning to look like you could make a case for fleeing tyrannical communism at entry into the United States and apply for political asylum upon admission.

[DeadEye]

Mixed emotions are the order of the day Zack. Day 22 and no businesses on fire, no looting, no robberies, no one shot on either side. I'm immensely pleased with the performance of the police and totally dismayed at the performance of the Prime Minister and the government. I'm almost 80 and in my lifetime the War Measures Act or the Emergency Act have only been invoked twice, both times by a Trudeau. I lived and worked in Ottawa for close to ten years. They live in an insular bubble of wealth and privilege with their heads firmly inserted up their . . . . It is so good to see something, anything bring the real world to their doorstep. Do I think it will help, sadly the protestors missed their opportunity with partying and hot-tubs. They gave the authorities the reasons they needed to do what's being done. At the end of the day I am most sad that we Canadians have lost our innocence.

Paul

[Shadow 4]

that's easy; just come in from mexico, stay as long as you want get free air fare and money art

Paul & Carole Ann would need to work on their tan