Long range 45-70

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I often say that there is something special about my Lodi bullet, in reality I think the only thing special about it is that my rifle really likes that bullet.

The one you show in that picture is very similar and a good design too. You just have to find the one your rifle shoots best. The only way I know to do that is to shoot a wide variety of good designs, pick out a couple that seem better than the rest and then shoot them a lot in a lot of different conditions. The targets will tell which is really best. It does start with a good design of the proper length for your twist.

It is important to keep in mind that we are shooting in the transonic zone and there are specific design characteristics that will perform better at those velocities than some that are out there and being used.

[mike herth]

Thanks DT and Aviator.
Kurt, I’m impressed with that patriotic patch, is that why it performs well? I’ve been shooting the JIM544540M in my 45-110, the same you did so well with at the MT1000 several years ago. Or maybe it was Carolyn’s spotting…
Does BACO have an elliptical mold similar to what you and DT showed? I have trouble telling these bullet shapes apart. I favor their molds and service.

[ian45662]

1.51” long bullets are shooting well out to 1200 in my 16 twist 45s. I have a 1.51” long .445 diameter elliptical bullet that my Shiloh likes and a 1.515” long .446 money bullet that my highwall likes. Seated only .1 into the case I use 81-85 grains of powder (depending on the lot)

[ian45662]

Yes, my 45-70 Shiloh 74 seems to work pretty well for both BPCR Silhouette, and BPTR long range.
It is a 16 twist, and I seem to be one of the few people left shooting grease groove bullets (I use the BACO 459542M5).

I need to start working on you and Woody so you guys can get in on the fun

[Distant Thunder]

I've looked at BACO's website, which I find hard to work with, and they don't list the length for any of the .45 caliber bullets that look good to me. They used to list the nose and shank length as well as the OAL, but I don't see that info anymore. Those are important lengths when choosing a bullet. They list the diameter and weight, but just the weight does not tell you if it will be stable in a given twist at a given velocity.

Arnie Seitz designs are good ones, but I believe they are all 2-diameter and are elliptical. Both Arnie and I prefer at larger radius tip on the nose because we have fond that design holds up best in quartering headwinds. We also like to keep the nose length to 40-45% of the OAL, which will also increase stability.

When I first made that mold it was for my Shiloh .45-90 and I cut it at 1.460" long. I was loading 100-105 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss and at around 1400 fps it was stable from 1000 yards using their standard chamber.

When I built my Hepburn Brent Danielson convinced me to go with his tight PP chamber in .45-70. The Badger barrel I used was about .001" larger in the bore than my Shiloh. I opened the mold up to better fit my Hepburn, but I opened it up a little too much and spent a year struggling to chamber some rounds at matches. I made a push through sizing die at .4504" diameter and began sizing my bullets after patching. That turned out to be a good thing, they fit perfectly and very consistently into the bore.

With only 83 grains of 1 1/2 my velocity was just under 1300 fps and it became evident after a couple of years that it was just a little too long for optimum stability past 800 yards in some winds. I shorten the mold to 1.435" and things improved noticeably. That is the bullet I shoot now. It took a bit of effort to fine tune the bullet for my rifle, but I learned a lot about what works best in the transonic zone as a result.

I have tried a few other designs since 2013, but only one other bullet shot as well in my rifle, that mold I loaned to Jim Ruch last year to shoot in his Shiloh .45-70 and it also shot very well for him. That design is also elliptical, but just a bit shorter in the nose with a longer shank to get the weight up closer to 540 grains. The OAL is still right around 1.440".

EPP6.jpg

All of this is just my opinion based on my experience and YMMV.

[Distant Thunder]

Ian,

You be careful now, I have been working to keep Steve away from paper patching for a while now. He is doing just fine with his greasers!

I have only ever shot with Woody once, years ago at Friendship, and he didn't seem to need any help from me. He hit 9 chickens one day! That's more than I hit in a year! Nope, I don't think he needs my help.

[Kurt]

Thanks DT and Aviator.
Kurt, I’m impressed with that patriotic patch, is that why it performs well? I’ve been shooting the JIM544540M in my 45-110, the same you did so well with at the MT1000 several years ago. Or maybe it was Carolyn’s spotting…
Does BACO have an elliptical mold similar to what you and DT showed? I have trouble telling these bullet shapes apart. I favor their molds and service.

Mike,

It's Carolyn that keeps me on target. If I miss I have to duck because she will slap my ears.

That is the bullet I used at the MT 1000 and it also was used a couple years ago at the Q that sent that prized White Buffalo home with me. It sits at a special spot in my cabinet. Beautiful trophy.
If I ever retire my .45-90 I will give you that mould. BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN PATCHES!

Kurt

[ian45662]

Ian,

You be careful now, I have been working to keep Steve away from paper patching for a while now. He is doing just fine with his greasers!

I have only ever shot with Woody once, years ago at Friendship, and he didn't seem to need any help from me. He hit 9 chickens one day! That's more than I hit in a year! Nope, I don't think he needs my help.

. Yea maybe your right

[Aviator]

Well, I think I do have a couple of molds on order from Buffalo Arms.
Let's see now, what were they?

[ian45662]

Well, I think I do have a couple of molds on order from Buffalo Arms.
Let's see now, what were they?

Now it’s a party!!

[desert deuce]

Careful Aviator, this smells like the stuff corrupting conspiracies are made of. I suspect they are trying to lull you into trying something that possibly will not improve your scores. Might want to wait until they show up at Ben Avery and see how they stack up against a firing line of grease groove bullets before you take a swig of that potentially toxic Kool-Aid. As you know, when theory meets reality, reality wins.

Your latest visit with reality ended March 31, 2022, and they were nowhere in sight.

[mike herth]

Good point! Where are you paper patch advocates?

[Don McDowell]

Good point! Where are you paper patch advocates?

I'm right here. None of the score sheet misery I suffered at the DI was due to paper patch.
Therefore I will be back next year with paper patch bullets in an optically equipped rifle, and very likely one of those nasty bottleneck cartridges that won't shoot to boot.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

And I will bring the correct wiping fluid. More brass to order from BACO

Kenny

[mike herth]

Oh no, say it ain’t so, Don! I’m still in denial of the impacts of aging, I’m sticking with irons as long as possible. And I’m feeling better after a long recovery from my knee replacement. Hope to cross your trail this season.