Buffalo Hunt 2007 Part 2 and 3

[mannyspd1]

My friend Max took his bull on Feb. 11th at about 190 yards, with a bullet through the heart. Max’s first bullet missed low, his second shot hit a lung but was far back in the ribs, and his third shot was tight behind the near shoulder of the bull. Max was shooting a Shiloh Sharps Quigley Model in 45-70, loaded with factory Remington 405 grain soft points. Although the slug did not expand much, the hole it left in the bull’s heart was about 1 ½” in diameter. The slug also came to rest under the offside hide. Max’s bull also scored in the 68 and change range, qualifying for SCI. The live weight on Max’s bull was estimated at 1500 pounds.

Steve took his bull later the same day, with 3 shots at about 200 yards, 2 at 75 yards, and a final at about 50 yards. Steve was shooting a 45 2 7/8”, with a swaged 545 grain bullet from Buffalo Arms. Stoked with 95 grains of Swiss 1 ½, the bullets swaged with 20:1 lead alloy wire were flying at over 1350 fps.

Steve’s first shot went low, hitting the bull low and far back. Steve’s second shot was a bit too far forward, as it broke the bull’s onside shoulder and came apart. Bone fragments and the rear section of bullet were found in the bull’s heart, causing slight damage to the heart. However, Steve’s bull did not go down. With the shoulder broken, the bull was now on three legs, but did not show any signs of a fatal hit.

Steve double lunged the bull with shots 3, 4 and 5, with shots 4 and 5 being from 75 yards. The bull showed minimal signs of being hit from these two shots. Finally, the bull went down but his head was still up, so Steve put another round into the bull, which put it down for good. The live weight on Steve’s bull was estimated at about 1900 pounds, and it green scored over 68 SCI points.

We recovered only one full bullet from Steve’s bull, with the nose slightly deformed. Excluding the bullet that came apart in the shoulder where just the heel was located, all the other bullets exited the bull.

Steve's bull did not show hardly any effects from subsequent bullets after the shoulder hit. Intial shot placement is important as these animals can obviously take a lot of lead.

I have included photos of Max and Steve's bulls, and a photo showing the recovered bullets compared to mine from my 50 cal.

Manny



Max's bull





Steve's bull

[Oregon Bill]

Manny: Thanks for the follow-up report. Those are two gorgeous bulls. Boy can they absorb punishment! Makes me think a .50 is the righteous medicine for a dedicated buffalo rifle.

[mannyspd1]

Oregon Bill,

Bigger bullets do make bigger holes, all other things being equal. But I think shot placement on these animals makes a difference as well. The least powerful load, the Remington 405 grain Max was shooting, dropped that bull within 30 yards or so after being struck-in the heart. My bull didn't quite go that far, but both died pretty quick after the heart was struck, along with the lower part of the lungs. Non-vital hits, no matter with what, are still going to be non-vital.

MLV in his book about Shooting Buffalo Rifles, mentions that the 50's are good killers as hunting rifles. I agree, and thats why I bought a 50. After 25 years of muzzleloading with 50 and 54 caliber rifles, I have come to like big bullets. I shoot a 50 only cause Shiloh doesn't make a 60!!

Manny

[mdeland]

Well hearing about animals being all shot to Hell just so we can be like the buffalo hunters of yesteryear makes me a bit crazy and does a real disservice to hunting in gerneral. Alot of this crap would go away if reinactment didn't get mixed up with sportmenship. If we want to play buffalo hunter on paper, silhouttes and gongs than fine and danndy but when we start wounding big game animals needlessly we have crossed a line that makes us look like blood crazed adolesents and puts one more nail in the coffin of gun ownership and hunting rights. I have never killed a buffalo but have taken ten moose. A big bull will go 15 to 1600 lbs and are not hard to kill with a decent game bullet and good placement. I have several friends that have been lucky enough to draw wild bison tags here in Alaska and have all filled them. They use something in the .338 to 375 class usually and often have to take a second shot so it appears buffalo are hard to kill even with expanding bullets. I wounded a fine Dall ram once years ago that got away from me and I have been a bit nuts about human game harvest ever since so while not picking on anyone in particular I think it necessary for us to police ourselves if we want to keep hunting and shooting. End of Rant! Flame away because I'm right on this one and can take it. SSD

[Kurt]

You know I lost a nice Buck one year but I didnt blame it on what I used to shoot him with I blamed my self for screwing up with a bad shot and my poor tracking ability for recovering him.
These rifles are more then adequate for taking down this game.
So SSD I think you should stick it in your ear.

Kurt

[mdeland]

Kurt, add irresponsible hunters to your list of enemys that guns have! SSD

[Trigger Dr]

Looks like the BPCR Buffalo hunting police just arrived.
Jim

[Kelley O. Roos]

mdeland,

Sometimes you talk to much. Maybe when the gentleman happened to take their shots the animal just happened to move. Just maybe those guys are not the perfect hunter you are.

Kelley O.

[mannyspd1]

mdeland:

Perhaps you have to read what occurred a little more carefully. My bull died with one shot, Max's took 3 (one was a miss) but died very quickly after the 2nd shot, and the third bull is the one that took 6 shots. 2 of the 3 were quick, clean kills after proper shot placement.

I very well could have written the story to make it sound pretty just for you, but I wrote exactly what happened instead. The outfitter has several stories of people shooting .338 and .375's that have taken several shots as well. The whole point of my accurately reporting what happened is that I felt shot placement was very important on these animals.

All of us wishes for a one shot, clean kill on game animals. But sometimes it does not happen that way. That does not make anybody "irresponsible." It makes us human.

Manny

[pete]

Manny; Good post. I too know some guys that used modern magnums and took multiple shots. Maybe and I say Maybe, Steve's would have gone down quicker with softer bullets but unless the nervous system is hit (spine or head) they don't seem to respond much. It doesn't sound like these buffalo were the type to stand around and let you get exactly into that perfectly close position to get that surgical shot either.

[mannyspd1]

Pete:

Thanks. I agree that perhaps a softer alloy, and a flat nose, would have caused more tissue damage. Sometimes the most accurate load may not be the "best" load for hunting purposes.

I know that there are people out there preparing for their hunts, and many read this forum to learn what works and what doesn't. I am one of those readers, and I have learned a lot from the people who post on here. I am by no means saying that as a result of this one buffalo hunt with three dead buffalo that I know everything there is to know about hunting these animals.

That being said, I think the most important things are shot placement, a flat nose bullet, and a soft alloy, in that order, for hunting these animals. That is just my opinion, and other things may work for other people.

Manny

[ironramrod]

Gentlemen,

As a former professional wildlife biologist I can tell you that anytime a Fish and Game Dept. holds a hunting season of any kind there is going to be wounding loss. Zero wounding loss simply is not realistic; accidents happen, mistakes are made, blood trails dry up, etc. and these things are simply a fact of life. We always would put out information on knowing your weapon, your abilities and the limitations of each, but it simply is not a perfect world. Most all hunters are really trying to do the very best they can, but like Kelley O. said sometimes the animal simply takes a step just as the trigger breaks. Then the really good shot ends up being a really bad hit, and now the serious work starts; sometimes unsuccessfully, too. However, the animal that is lost today by a hunter may very well have walked out in the road and been clobbered by a Peterbilt tomorrow or died in a 3 day blizzard next week, if the wounding loss had not occurred. We only see a small slice of time when we were involved in the overall life of that animal, and never get to see how the entire life span of that animal might have played out, if things had been different.

On the bright side I have seen deer with parts of 2 legs missing, others with only 1 functional lung, damaged kidneys, etc., and they recovered, were well fleshed and doing fine in spite of their handicap. Additionally, I can tell you that in spite of wounding loss there are much higher densities of practically every game animal now than there was 100 years ago; all a result of modern wildlife management. Certainly there are a few exceptions, but not many. Compared to 100 years ago, the opportunities that exist now are the good ol' days.

Regards

[bobw]

Manny, thanks for the facts "the absolute truth and honesty are more than some people can accept" (bobw) . From all the reading we do on the those buffalo hunters of yesteryear and their buffalo guns and stands they had ,one would think that by now most people would understand that the one shot instant humane kill is fairly recent value. The buffalo hunters shot for a disabling placement thru the lungs on the lead cow so the rest would mill. Yeah it took them a while to die, nobody has to like that , its just the way it was. The picture shows that your buddy is not ashamed of his animal and with half a thought he probably wasn't happy with the shooting though. Next time it will turn out better. If foresight was as good as hindsight we'd all be millionaires,etc. bobw

[mannyspd1]

BobW:

You are right and thanks for the comments.

Manny

[Scott Tschirhart]

Manny,

I appreciate you telling it like it happened. Does not hurt me in the least and I think it does me good to keep things like this in mind.

Thanks,

Scott