Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

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Sniperfire
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:49 am

Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Sniperfire »

Newbie asking question:
My oldest brother passed away recently and left a nice Marlin-Ballard in .40-65 to my younger brother who doesn't know reloading.
I've found a Redding case forming die, bullets, molds, cases, primers, powder, etc., but no sizing or seating dies. I've no idea how he was reloading them without the dies. Nor can I find a source to buy them. Huntington is no longer in business.

Does anybody make these anymore, or does anyone of you BP shooters have a set you'll part with?
Any info would help me get my little brother setup and shooting this fine rifle. Thank you.
Respectfully,
Chris
Randy Bohannon
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Randy Bohannon »

With a case form die can you get close enough after trimming to chamber a cartridge ? Might have been just fire forming the brass and final trim for P.P. bullets ,don’t really need a sizing die if the form die gets you so you can fill the case up with powder and a wad and fire form the brass.
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desert deuce
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by desert deuce »

We have a couple of 40-65's, one is a 40-65 Ron Long. We have a complete set of dies for the Ron Long from RCBS.
I have been loading that 40-65 RL for a long time, over 25 years. (It is entirely possible that my RL chamber is not the same as yours) I have mentored many new shooters, some the advice takes and some it doesn't. Those that can't learn what they have to do become dissatisfied and quit the program rather quickly.

Surely the original owner had some fire formed brass ??? Or did he shoot the rifle at all?

It is nothing like loading smokeless powder and jacketed bullets

Sitting here on the sidelines it sounds to me like the owner of the rifle and brass needs to get on this forum and get started on the learning curve.

By having a forming die you imply that you do not have any 40-65 brass at all much less for this rifle but brass to be formed to 40-65. Randy gave you pretty good try this first ideas. Once the brass is fired in that rifle you should no longer need dies other than a compression die or maybe case belling die. If I remember correctly my RCBS case forming die from 45-70 to 40-65 only needed (and that not much) the case mouth squared to chamber in the Ron Long chamber. I only use the RL sizing die when using brass fired in a different 40-65 chambered rifle.

If you guys are just getting started BPCR loading making the leap to paper patched bullets may be a bridge to far at this point.

First project is to see if the brass he has will chamber easily in the rifle if it has been formed. Once that is determined he can go from there.

Forming 40-65 from 45-70 is not necessarily a walk in the park.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
WVsmoke
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by WVsmoke »

Sniperfire,
To shoot Black Powder Cartridge rifles even in competition, a shooter does not require a case sizing die or a bullet seating die. In a single shot rifle, once the brass case is fireformed to that chamber, the brass does not need any further adjustment. I will not get into exceptions. Once the brass is formed and loaded with powder and covered with a wad or wads, the bullet can be finger seated on top of the wad. No die is required to seat the bullet if the bullet fits the fired case. I do use bullet sizing dies on occasion in order to adjust the size of the bullet. This system will work with lubed bullets or paper patched.
If you need to fire form new brass for your gun, that creates other needs for dies to reform your brass to fit your gun and to load your bullets, but that is a lesson for another time.

Good luck, Allan
Sniperfire
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Sniperfire »

Randy, Desert Deuce, and Allan,
Thank you all for your experience and patience with this newbie. Upon reading more about these rifles, I believe the hand seating of the bullet is a correct assumption.
He had perhaps 40rds loaded, and another 20-40 fireformed cases with some 400gr cast projectiles. I just thought you'd need a seating die at least. Oldest brother competed and won with this Marlin-Ballard at his local range in Mountain Home, AR. I didn't see evidence of paper patching. I didn't get the drop tube but that can be purchased if it's not there after the estate sale. I'm certain his Muzzleloading friends picked up the remains of his gunsmithing a new .54 Hawken, stocks, barrels, and wood carving tools I left behind. Just too much for me to take back to Colorado. He kept good data, but I couldn't find it. It was probably in his Sierra Loading manual. I had several, so I didn't even look at his laying on the bench.

When brother empties the safe and has the rifle at home, I'll share your thoughts and wisdom and help him enjoy his new falling block. Thank you guys for your quick replies. God knows I love "gun" people!
Respectfully,
Chris
Sniperfire
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:49 am

Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Sniperfire »

OK Gentlemen,
I finally located a full set of dies with extras for my little brother's Marlin-Ballard 40-65RL. He came out to Colorado last month and we learned how to load and shoot it properly. He now has the know-how and components to "roll" his own. I sent him back with perhaps 27 loaded rounds. Now he needs somebody smarter than me to help him learn the intricacies and nuances of this rifle and its feeding.

He's not having any luck finding like-minded folks to shoot with and learn from around Kansas City (Leewood, KS to be accurate.)
Can anyone point him to another shooter, club, or matches where he can learn more? Surely there are BP cartridge shooters in between Kansas and Missouri. Any advice or suggestions are most welcome. Thank you all for your generous knowledge.
Respectfully,

Chris
Colorado - Older and much wiser brother
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Dutch44
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Dutch44 »

Ron's 40-65 chamber required only Remington brass. I would be very careful if you attempt to use any brass other than Remington if it is a RL chamber that Ron actually chambered. Ron designed his chamber around Remington brass and warned me several times to use only Remington. I found out the hard way only once.
jackrabbit
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by jackrabbit »

I have owned several Ron Long chambered guns and shot them extensively with various types of brass. I can't think of any issue that specific to any brand of brass? What problems are you talking about?

The only one I know of is a small bulge developing just ahead of the him and not being able to get it sized out because of the taper to a normal sizing die. Ron made a special die out of a piece of barrel that would allow one to size right down to the rim. I have one and it works great.

FYI, all things considered, I prefer a regular 40-65 chambering and choose that over a Ron Long chamber anytime I have a choice.
Cody
Dutch44
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by Dutch44 »

Shon Eychanor purchased Ron's machine shop and I ended up with his 40-65 reamer. Ron had built 4 40-65 rifles for me and I own his personal HiWall. The accuracy of all of his rifles have been superb for me. He always warned me of using Winchester brass or other brands in his chamber. I had a Winchester loaded round that was sized in his dies and it was a stiff fit and wouldn't extract. Tried drill rod and heating the chamber but no go. Just listened to him and stuck with Remington brass.
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desert deuce
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by desert deuce »

We have only used Remington Brass in our 40-65 Ron Long because at the time it came with the gun and subsequent purchases coincidentally were Remington Brass. And yes fireformed brass does seem like the way to go.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
ole pizen slinger
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Re: Need Dies for .40-65 Ron Long

Post by ole pizen slinger »

I have a Mike Lewis Remington Creedmoor Rolling Block rifle chambered in 40-65 Ron Long. The Ron Long chamber is a little longer than a regular 40-65 chamber; best as I remember, brass needs to be 2.153 inches in length. This negates making brass from 45=70 cases. At the time, BACO was making 40-65 brass from 45-70 and also were marketing 45-90 brass as well. I contacted BACO and asked if they would run 200 pieces of their 45-90 brass through their 40-65 dies and leave the brass at the 45-90 length as I could trim the brass to the 40-65 Ron Long chamber length. This was done thanks to BACO and as a result I had brass that could be cut to Ron Longs chamber length and was formed to the 40-65 chamber configuration. All that was needed was to fireform the brass to my RL chamber and I was in business. Never got this particular rifle to shoot any GG bullet configuration accurately. But this is not the end of the story. BACO sold swaged lead PP bullets in about 3 or 4 weights in 40 caliber for paper patching. Rifle shot all three weight bullets into 6 inch groups at 600 yards. One of the most accurate rifles I own. Best as I can remember with a 76 year old mind this is how I obtained brass for my 40-65 RL Remington rifle. Hope this helps!

OPS
Barry C Jolly

"I envy no man that knows more than myself and pity them that know less:" Sir T. Brown

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