Vintage .45 Colt black powder ctg's. in a 24" barrel +

[w44wcf]

As we know, the .45 Colt was an original black powder cartridge. I was curious to see what velocity some early original .45 Colt b.p. cartridges would have achieved in a rifle, had one been available way back when. After some searching, I located some early, headstamped U.M.C. .45 Colt black powder cartridges which cost $3.00 each (!).

The reason I sought U.M.C. (Union Metallic Cartridge Company) cartridges was, that since back in the late 1800's -early 1900's Marlin worked closely with U.M.C. on ammunition development and my test rifle was a Marlin Cowboy Ltd. (24" barrel).

Previous to this, I had tested full 40 gr. charges of Goex FFG and Goex Cowboy and achieved average velocities of 1,131 and 1,155 f.p.s. respectively. As I recall, Mike Venturino reported similar velocities in a past issue of Black Powder Cartridge News.

To continue:
I discovered that the primers were dead, so I needed to replace the mercuric primers with fresh Remington 2 1/2's. To accomplish that, I pulled the bullets with an inertia puller, and removed the powder which, as it turned out, ran pretty close to 40 grs. by weight and was polished in appearance. I then removed the primers, and annealed the cases to keep them from splitting. After seating the new primers, I reloaded the powder and the bullets, after replacing the dried up lube with SPG.

At the range, I chambered the vintage b.p. UMC .45 Colt cartridges in my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Ltd. and fired them over my chronograph. The average velocity at 15 feet was 1,241 f.p.s. and the bullets cut a very nice 1" cluster at 25 yards.

Interestingly, U.M.C. had used a "Sporting" type b.p. in these cartridges.
I then tried 40 grs. of SWISS FFG ignited by 2 1/2 Remington primers under a Lyman 454190 bullet to see if it would come close to that velocity. That combination averaged 1,220 f.p.s. @ 15 feet from the muzzle.

It was neat to step back in time and shoot those vintage cartridges in a modern rifle.........just as our forefathers would have done, if the Marlin .45 Colt Cowboy or a similar rifle had been in exsistance back then........................

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[pete]

That's an interesting experiment and took some trouble to do too. I've wondered whether real old powder would still have it's umpf after such a long time, I guess so. It's interesting that the primer died and the lube dried out but the powder seems like it held up. I know there isn't a chemical composition per se to break down like smokeless but it's still interesting.
Yea it would be cool to shoot a few cartridges that old and smell the history.
I don't think I'll shoot any of my original Sharps rifle cartridges either Sharps or UMC. At from $20 to $55 a piece they're a little cost prohibitive.
Thanks that was cool.

[w44wcf]

Pete,
Thank you for the kind words. It was an interesting experiment.

Below is a pic of one of the vintage cartridges and the bullet that U.M.C. used in its manufacture.


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[boge]

Why? No company in the 19th century chambered .45 Colt in a rifle.

[ndnchf]

An interesting experiment, thanks for posting it. I'm imagine some cartridge collectors would get their panties in a wad over burning up a few original rounds. But with millions being produced, I don't think it will turn the collector market upside down

Personally, I would be more interested in the results of a similar experiment with original chamberings - 44WCF, .50-70, .40-90 etc.

Thanks for sharing

[Ken Heier]

In an effort to make my powder can collecton safer without wasting good powder, I have shot quite a bit of black powder ranging from the early 1870's up through the 1920's. Shot quite a bit of this in BPCR matches. It does vary some in power (velocity) but generally is on a par or better than the best powders we have today. (Swiss and Goex Express)

The very best I have found is Curtis's & Harvey's No 6 Diamond Grain from the mid 1870's. It was reputed to be the best in it's day, very expensive in comparison to most, and apparantly worth it as it shot very clean, and fast.

If the powder has been in a sealed or tightly closed can, it will be good. Does not deteriorate like smokeless or like the worst, the early semi-smokeless and early smokeless. These had a poor shelf life just like some modern faux black powders, (not as bad as some recent "replica" powders which I have been told changed to a slurry in two years or less) and slso were very corrosive to their containers.

If lumps are found in the old black powder as they sometimes are, just break them up with your fingers, and there seemingly are no ill effects to the powder. I wish I had kept better records when chronographing some of these powders. I still have some left, since I began to doubt the economics of driving hundreds of miles to a match, sighting in with a powder I never shot before (and often two powders because I didn't have enough of either to shoot the match, then keep track of which to shoot on what targets) I make enough mistakes without this chance for error, and usually just one mistake at these matches will keep one from winning even if one has a good day otherwise.

It was fun to shoot the old powder, though. OH, always save just a bit in the can for an example of the appearance.

Ken

[pete]

w44wcf;
Thanks for the photo. Obviously these bullets have a cupped base and no paper patch which brings me to a thought I've had for awhile.
I've wondered before whether the cupped base on original paper patch bullets was just for the sake of tucking the paper tail or whether it was also there to help expand the bullet base and obturate the bullet. I think it served the dual purpose.
I'm sure there are those that disagree but hey let's hear why.

[w44wcf]

Why? No company in the 19th century chambered .45 Colt in a rifle.

Boge, because those of us that are traditionalists of sorts, and as such, want to replicate the ballistic strength of the original .45 Colt Black Powder cartridge. Obviously, to do that, we needed a benchmark since there were no published ballistics in a rifle barrel.

ndnchf,
Thank you for your interest. I have done some testing of early W.R.A. CO. .44 W.C.F. headstamped catridges and will start a thread with ballistic data from that test within the next few days.

Ken,
NEAT! I must have been very satisfying to work with some of the vintage black powders. Thank you for sharing.

pete,
Thank you for your interest. I have no experience regarding paper patched hollow based bullets, but I have seen a photo with the tail pushed into the hollow base.

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[mdeland]

Did you happen to weigh those bullets you pulled from the original cartridges or did I just miss it somehow. My guess would be they are the standard 250 grain round nose but am curious. MD

[w44wcf]

MD,
Oops! Neglected to list the bullet weight. Thank you for asking.
It was 250 grs. for the U.M.C. headstamped cartridge.

Bullets from W.R.A. CO. .45 Colt headstamped cartridges weighed 255 grs. and were also hollow based.

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[w44wcf]

AS an update, I tried Olde Enysford FFG to see how it compared ballistically to the 40 grs by weight of the powder used in the vintage UMC .45 Colt cartridges.
They averaged 1,239 f.p.s.

"At the range, I chambered the vintage b.p. UMC .45 Colt cartridges in my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Ltd. and fired them over my chronograph. The average velocity at 15 feet was 1,241 f.p.s. and the bullets cut a very nice 1" cluster at 25 yards.

Interestingly, U.M.C. had used a "Sporting" type b.p. in these cartridges.
I then tried 40 grs. of SWISS FFG ignited by 2 1/2 Remington primers under a Lyman 454190 bullet to see if it would come close to that velocity. That combination averaged 1,220 f.p.s. @ 15 feet from the muzzle. "

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