Swaging Primer Pockets?

[mdeland]

Seems like the under primer wad makes a lot of sense because you don't have to permanently alter good brass to achieve the same goal plus the usual added benefit of muting brisancel.
I haven't measured them that I can remember but are not the pistol primers slightly smaller in diameter as well as they sure seat much easier but this could be due to a shorter length I suppose.
If I understand correctly the problem with breach face peen down around the firing pin hole is caused from the short primers moving back under pressure and it is only a problem with incorrectly hardened breach faces.
The under primer wad would alleviate this as well holding the primer against the breach face in resistance to firing pin blow.
It appears to be a win-win way to see if benefit can be derived from swaging without actually having to go to the expense of buying the tool and permanently altering good brass. MD

[Woody]

Kelley's correct in his assumption. I have played with placing a primer wad under the primer as Dan suggests. Believe me, if I decide to try swaging primer pockets, I would'nt swage them all until I was convinced that it would be an improvement. Side by side testing would have to confirm the advantage. I do like the idea of having my primers properly fit, which they do not at this time. Keep talking guys, I'm paying attention.

Woody

[Woody]

mdeland,

I have not had the problem of peening my breech faces, even after thousands of rounds through them, but I know of several that have. Mostly, but not only, the Cody Ballards, and High Walls. My favorite 45-70 is one of the Early Cody High Walls, but like I said, I haven't had the problem, and don't want it.

Woody

[Kelley O. Roos]

mdeland,

You really do need to get out more. Do your own experiments, just because Dan gets good results with over primer wads, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

High power and bench rest shooters have been messing with primer pockets years longer then we have. How about this, special tooling has been made to cut different angles and depths to cases on inside of the flash hole to try and control primer shape and it's flash That's just one of many experiments.

There's alot of shooters out there who have moved primer pockets back with improved results or no improved results and so far I haven't heard of bad results and that could because their not in the circle of guys I know.

I move the primer pockets back so the primer is .001 below the fim face, I have had improvement doing that. I also use a stop on my RCBS primer seater so I can control primer seating, I seat primers one at a time.

I like to tinker and am limited with testing time so I try and make the best of the testing I do, usually at local match's. Matter of fact I'm testing a new rifle and load next weekend at Pala. I'll shoot 200 rounds at that Buffalo match so the test will be long and fair.

Kelley O.

[Woody]

Which way should the little B go?

Woody

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

FWIW

I have used, and then not used primer wads. Some of my best scores and groups came with primer wads(thin strips of yellow pages) seated between the primer and the brass in the pocket.

Kelley, The brass I use, you know it well, as you turned down the base/rims .015 or so, if I remember correctly, so as to not have any primer blow back issues while using pistol primers.

Also, I rinsed Lee's brass in the motel tub when we were at the Reg in GA. I ain't never seen so much black ash in my life, I will never lay a wad in the bottom of the case, as he said that this was the cause.

IMHO, when I use the Gold Match Fed 150's, a primer wad doesn't help too much, when I use BR2's, it helps, go figure!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, ya'll behave and have fun! I gonna have fresh tenderized backstrap tonite, with mashed taters and Mex cornbread, yum!!

Best, Barvid

[bryany]

I've been carefully weighing my Federal primers for several years. Each carton of 1000 comes in right at 1 lb. 9 oz.

Bryan

[Kelley O. Roos]

Da,

Na, I just quite using BR-2 primers I learned over the years that you need a back up plan. When primers were scarces I tested other primers to find what would work as well or better then BR-2's

You use two methods of over primer wads? Your using coloring paper in the pocket and ashless paper over the hole inside the case? Some here may be confused with what you do.

Kelley O.

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Kelley,

Naw bro, I have only used one kinda paper, yellow pages, and i make sure I don't get any of the red advertisement ink on my strips I seat under the primer! It doesn't matter how good the rest of your round is selected, red ink will push a miss every time!!!!!!!!!!

Best, DB

[mdeland]

KR, I'm a BR2 shooter but during the primer blight I bought to bricks of 150s and have not tested them with pocket wads. I was just saying that it sounds like a good way to check out the short primer thing without having to swage, plus I have not heard of muting primer flash with a pocket wad as ever being detrimental to accuracy. It will improve things or leave them unchanged as far as testimony that I have read says.
I don't care who in particular advances what I think to be a good idea, if it sounds good, I am interested to check it out and will get around to seeing if it works for me in due time.

[Kelley O. Roos]

mdeland,

Not everyone is on these forums who shoot BPCR so your limiting yourself besides, who knows what's said is true here or else where

If BR-2's float your boat, that's a good thing

Kelley O.

[mdeland]

KR, in the testing of your new rifle next week are using both swaged brass with modified primer pockets against unaltered pockets?
What swaging tool do you have?
I bet I could make one if you would post a picture as I would like to experiment as you suggested I do with some swaged brass. MD

[mdeland]

I'm trying to visualize how to go about making a swage. It must work by reforming the interior against a pocket anvil forming die in a base cup with a punch down the inside.
One would want the same amount of pressure each time so I'm guessing a hydraulic press would be the best bet although hammer forging is probably used more often.
Flash holes would need re-drilling unless a mandrel pin is present when forming occurs which would be a better method.
Most interesting thread. MD

[Brent]

MD - if you want to make a swage, build it around your reloading press. That will give you repeatable pressures and stops.

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Why not make a die extension that would work with a Seaco micro bullet seating die. Then you could measure the amount of "press" needed to move the primer pocket back, and use your press, as Brent mentioned, to swage the pockets rearward. Also, a pin on the end of the swage rod would keep flash holes uniform, and no need to re-drill. One could measure the ticks on the seating die by buildind a dummy round and measure OAL, record it, then move 1 mark, record it, and once more move 2 mark on the seating die, and record it and you should have a delta for how much the seating die moves per mark. That way you could be fairly precise as to how much you moved your pocket back. Does this make sense at all? And, this tool could be made in a few minutes with very little expense.

Best, DB