Now what the hell? More questions....Please help

[fingers]

I went to the rage last weekend and my group was all of the place. The new bullets are .460 the old ones are .458.
Is .002 much of a differance? I guess the correct awnser should be slug the barrel. What should the differance be for a good bullet? Has anyone ever slugged a barrel with a pure lead round ball? What if I was to size these bullets. Could I press them through a reamed .458 hole in a piece of aluminum or steel plate, pressed from the base?

[Bumper]

Fingers,
Midway USA has a kit for slugging barrels and you can buy Cerro Safe from Brownell's or Buffalo Arms and make achamber cast. Most rifles shoot better with the bullet 1 thou over bore diameter and some 2 thou over bore diameter but each rifle has a preference for an alloy and bullet diameter that must be identified by keeping proper notes on your loads and experimenting (ie, loading & shooting). Rbump

[powderburner]

fingers a lot would depend on the temper of the bullets if they were hard and large they would most likly shoot better than if they were large and soft . soft ones can be small and bump up better also it would be good to know the cal and charge of powder and lube . also how many round strings , did you use a blow tube? did the bullets lead? or the barrel foul badly?did you change anything else from your 458 sized loads besides the bullet?how were the 458 loads

sounds like you dont have a lubersizer you need one if you are buying bullets that big and want to size them down a hole in a piece of steel wont work to well

Make sure they are lubed with bp lube 1st .

Kirk recommends a 458 bullet in a 45 cal rifle and I have gotten good results with 457 and 459 as well as 458 in mine but I am not a top drawer shooter so good is a relavent thing.

[fingers]

The bullets I was useing were pretty hard. I had a guy cast them up for me and told him I wanted 20:1 but didn't really care how he got there. He said he mixed a little of this and a little of that and should be about 30:1. They arn't as hard as a laser cast but still harder than I would like.

I guess I'll start casting my own. A buddy from work has a lube sizer and we are going to cut these down to .458 and some to .457. And see how they work. If nothing else I'll make some pretty smoke with them.

Everything in the load was the same. I was a bit lax in measureing compression this time but 74grn in a Win case should be the same all the time. Maybe I should have checked a few to see what was what. I don't use a blow tube, yet. Doesn't seem to make any differance in the winter in Oregon...hell if you don't oil things around they start to grow so I doubt a blow tube would add much.

Good lube and the fouling is tolerable for a five shot string, at 7 or 8 things start to go south. I did see that happening earlier last time. Who knows what that means.

Once again thanks for the help.

[fingers]

I went ahead and tried tapping a round ball through. It seemed to work fiine. I lubed it up real good and drove it through with a soft rod (alum tubing) The biggest part is .458 and the smallest was .450. That seems to tell me that a soft .458 would work a .459 would be better and the rifleings are .004 deep.

What do those fancy Shilohs run? Mine is a $735 NIB Pedersoli in .45-70

Thanks for the input fellas

[Al]

Fingers, When you add good sights to a Shiloh you will spend 3 to 6 times what you spent on the Perersoli. It sounds like alot BUT IT'S WORHTH IT!!!!

[fingers]

Al: I don't believe there is a question about the awnser to that. I don't buy crap. I think a Pedersoli is fine to learn with. Shilo is definatly the finer weapon but is it cosmetic? Are the barrels in the same class even if the quality of Shilo is better? My poor mans rifle is quality from my perspective and should be serviceable for many years.

My question is what are the differances? Are the rifleings the same depth, twist, and uniformity. Are, perhaps the Shilo is hand lapped; perhaps cryo treated? Are, perhaps the barrels superior form the metallurgical stand point.

I am sure that Shilos are better in terms of options, attention to detail, and craftsmanship, and they probably shoot better because of it. But, are they in the same class as far as shooting?

Thanks for the input.
This is the place I come to for awnsers to my questions as a novice and am never disappointed

[fingers]

Anyone fire lap a barrel. I got to thinking about what I might do to reduce the fouling.

What would happen if you put lapping compound on a bullet and fire it. Seems like the same concept and I have some 600 grit lapping compound.

Thanks again

[Al]

Fingers, I wasn't implying that the Pedersoli wasn't a quality rifle I was just answering your question "What do those fancy Shilohs run"? I based my answer on the two I bought last year. I know lots of people who shoot the Pedersoli sharps and love them. No matter what brand rifleyou shoot in black powder cartridge this is the place to get good information. Good shooting!

[Smokin]

fingers,

Make sure you're using a black powder compatible bullet lube. The stuff used for smokeless powder doesn't seem to work. I know, I tried it early on when I bought bullets rather than cast them myself. About 5 shots and the bore was clogged with a remarkably tough, tar-like agglutination. Use a blow tube! Take several long puffs between each shot. You can determine if you have blown enough down the bore when you take a dry patch and run it down the bore after blow-tubing and the patch comes out of the muzzle greasy. If it is difficult to push the patch through the bore, you have not used the blow tube enough. Since you are shooting a .45 caliber rifle, the easiest thing to use as a blow tube is a piece of 7/16" OD vinyl tubing, the stuff you can get at your home-project store for about 10 cents a foot. Cut the end square and it will catch at the end of the chamber so it won't go too far up the bore. Use it by blowing several lungfuls of air into the bore, slowly and wetly.

Pedersoli has a reputation for making fine barrels, so don't jump into firelapping too quickly. The problems you are facing are probably simply solved with good loading procedures, and proper fouling managment. Good luck, Smokin

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Fingers,

Firelaping will not help your bp Fouling issues. Fouling is a byproduct of BP shooting plan and simple, A blow tube is the best way to control it and the next is a good Quality BP lube.

Fire lapping is a process that is at Best impossible to control and and worst a great way to ruin a barrel fast.

I hope you dont fire lap that barrel, please try some good methods to control your fouling first.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Texas Shooter]

To All:

I have used lapping compound on some competition rifles I have, when breaking in the barrel, however I'm not familiar with "Fire Lapping". Can someone discribe the proceedure and the proported benifits of it?

Also, on a different direction. Is the heavy half round barrel less accurate than the full octagon heavy barrel?

Other than being lighter, is there any advantage/disadvantage to it?

Thanks,

Texas Shooter

[Kelley O.Roos]

Well the expert has spoken , on fire lapping. If anyone is interested contact me by private message and I'll get you the correct, safe and a controled method of fire lapping a barrel and won't ruin a barrel. All the rifles I shoot have been fire lapped and for a reason.

Kelley O.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Kelley,
While no expert on firelapping it is indeed not something to do with out experiance I think you will agree.

Of course you shoot kriggers that are cut rifled and I would expect some sort of lapping is required for a cut rifle barrel no doubt of that.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Kelley O.Roos]

Your ignorance is showing , Kenny.

Kelley O.