Pretty well picked up all the stuff: Lyman Casting Book-read it through; Waage; Rowell Gizzie; and a 457125 mold-will spend more here when gun comes-(come on Kirk!). So, fired up a batch of 1/20. Couldn't get the melt above 700Deg, so came here, did a search, and the first of a dozen hits nailed the problem with the Waage.
Now here's the rub: 800 deg... 700... 600... doesn't seem to make any difference--all the bullets are dropping with the top half or so, bright, shiney, and smooth, but the bottom halves are all frosty (too hot?).
Any ideas?? Thanks,
Casting Problem
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spook2
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 4:33 pm
- Location: Lake City, CO
Casting Problem
Spook2
Got the target; the friendlies are in sight; master arm on; I'm rollin' in hot. Experto Crede.
Got the target; the friendlies are in sight; master arm on; I'm rollin' in hot. Experto Crede.
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Lee Stone
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:27 pm
- Location: Lacombe, Louisiana, USA
- Contact:
Spook2,
Sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. Here is a little procedure I worked up for adjusting the thermostat on the Waage.
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are not married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.
Once you do this you will LOVE the Waage.
Sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. Here is a little procedure I worked up for adjusting the thermostat on the Waage.
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are not married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.
Once you do this you will LOVE the Waage.
Lee Stone
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Lee Stone
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:27 pm
- Location: Lacombe, Louisiana, USA
- Contact:
Sorry for this repeat, but I did not notice a typo I had in my first one until it was already submitted and too late for corrections: 
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are NOW married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are NOW married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.
Lee Stone
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Crotchety Ole Bart
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:27 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Casting
I can't help you with the temperature setting but when I started out last August as a new caster I found that the hotter the lead the heavier the bullet. I was casting in the 480 grain area with 775 degree lead. As I moved up to about 825 I am getting 490 to 492 grain bullets. Some have to be discarded--most for being less than 490.0 but a few run heavier than 492.0 as the mould gets hot. I have to discard the first 20 drops (two bullets per drop) before the mould gets hot enough to drop bullets in the 490 range.
As to the frosty appearance. I was getting that on one side of my bullets when poured though the pot spout in a Saeco mold. I switched to the hand held dipper and the problem went away. I don't know what causes the frosty appearance.
As to the frosty appearance. I was getting that on one side of my bullets when poured though the pot spout in a Saeco mold. I switched to the hand held dipper and the problem went away. I don't know what causes the frosty appearance.
Dick Hawkins
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Outrider
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Allegan, MI
Spook
I hear you on that half-frosted bullet thing. I've just started like yourself. And my equipment list mirrors yours. I've been casting 30:1 ( in the Lyman 457125 also). If I keep the melt at about 775 deg I've not had the trouble with frosting. Much above that it starts to rear its ugly head. As a side note, If I pour just enough to fill the mould and sprue my bullets tend to have more inclusions (less uniform weight). But if I pour the whole ladle full (rowell #2) letting the excess pour over the side of the blocks and into the pot they will all tend to fall within one grain of each other and I just cull the occasional odd ones. I'm trying to figure out in my inexperienced mind why this happens. And the only thing I can think is that possibly letting the rest of the ladle of melt pour over the blocks causes the melt in the cavity to stay molten long enough to allow any air bubbles time to escape before it hardens. As I am so new at this I can only say that this is mostly accidental on my part and I offer this info with the most modest recommendations. Thanks for listening and good luck.
Outrider
I hear you on that half-frosted bullet thing. I've just started like yourself. And my equipment list mirrors yours. I've been casting 30:1 ( in the Lyman 457125 also). If I keep the melt at about 775 deg I've not had the trouble with frosting. Much above that it starts to rear its ugly head. As a side note, If I pour just enough to fill the mould and sprue my bullets tend to have more inclusions (less uniform weight). But if I pour the whole ladle full (rowell #2) letting the excess pour over the side of the blocks and into the pot they will all tend to fall within one grain of each other and I just cull the occasional odd ones. I'm trying to figure out in my inexperienced mind why this happens. And the only thing I can think is that possibly letting the rest of the ladle of melt pour over the blocks causes the melt in the cavity to stay molten long enough to allow any air bubbles time to escape before it hardens. As I am so new at this I can only say that this is mostly accidental on my part and I offer this info with the most modest recommendations. Thanks for listening and good luck.
Outrider
Remember....We get the government that we deserve.
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Outrider
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Allegan, MI
Gentlemen,
From what the Lyman handbook says (and everything else I've read) the frosty appearance on a cast bullet is caused by excessive temperature. I also read that lead will start to vaporize at around 900 deg. F. So I'm supposing a preson would want to stay away from that kind of temps. I've also had frosting appear on one side only of a cast bullet. But I'm a bit puzzled as to how a bisemetrically similar mould could be hotter on one side than another. Go figure.
Outrider
From what the Lyman handbook says (and everything else I've read) the frosty appearance on a cast bullet is caused by excessive temperature. I also read that lead will start to vaporize at around 900 deg. F. So I'm supposing a preson would want to stay away from that kind of temps. I've also had frosting appear on one side only of a cast bullet. But I'm a bit puzzled as to how a bisemetrically similar mould could be hotter on one side than another. Go figure.
Outrider
Remember....We get the government that we deserve.
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powderburner
- Posts: 2991
- Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 12:23 am
- Location: elko nv.
it sounds as if your mould is heating or cooling differentially try cooling your spru plate a little longer or set the nose of the mould on the pot while pouring there is more meat in the nose of the mould and it would take longer to heat than the rear or spru end especially if you are ladle pouring over the spru plate maybe slow down the speed of your casting?or let the spru plate cool after cutting and before dumping the bullet.
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
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Clarence
- Posts: 2172
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:38 pm
- Location: Hill Country, TX
Have you cleaned your mould really well? I use GunScrubber, and it usually only takes a couple of applications a minute or two apart. I am casting 1/20 and don't have any issues with frosting, casting at 800 degrees and using a dipper. I have had frosting using a bottom pour.
Lead temperature makes a lot of difference in bullet weight. and part of it's an indirect effect. With constant lead temperature, try casting at considerably intervals and you'll see that bullet weight varies a lot also. The only to get all your bullets to come out in a 1 grain band is to have constant lead temperature and constant mould temperature. You get the latter by getting a casting rhythm so you are putting the same amount of heat per unit of time into the mould as it is losing to the atmosphere.
The easiest way I've found is to use a clock with a second hand. As an example, begin filling the mould at :00, break the sprue at :30, tap the hinge pin and release the bullet, begin filling the mould again at :40. Adjust the actual timing to your casting method and to let the bullet harden completely before breaking the sprue.
Pouring the same amount of sprue also makes for more consistent weight, as does holding the dipper on the mould for the same amount of time and making sure the sprue doesn't run off the plate before the lead hardens.
Clarence
Lead temperature makes a lot of difference in bullet weight. and part of it's an indirect effect. With constant lead temperature, try casting at considerably intervals and you'll see that bullet weight varies a lot also. The only to get all your bullets to come out in a 1 grain band is to have constant lead temperature and constant mould temperature. You get the latter by getting a casting rhythm so you are putting the same amount of heat per unit of time into the mould as it is losing to the atmosphere.
The easiest way I've found is to use a clock with a second hand. As an example, begin filling the mould at :00, break the sprue at :30, tap the hinge pin and release the bullet, begin filling the mould again at :40. Adjust the actual timing to your casting method and to let the bullet harden completely before breaking the sprue.
Pouring the same amount of sprue also makes for more consistent weight, as does holding the dipper on the mould for the same amount of time and making sure the sprue doesn't run off the plate before the lead hardens.
Clarence
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MikeT
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 7:48 pm
- Location: Saint Cloud, MN
Outrider,
"I've also had frosting appear on one side only of a cast bullet." I can do that trick on comand. All I do is increase the rate at which I turn the mould upright and "bingo" frosting on one side of the bullet. I believe that there is air trapped in the mould when you pour too fast, and that oxidizes the lead slightly. That is my story and I'm stick'n to it!
Keep on hav'n fun!
"I've also had frosting appear on one side only of a cast bullet." I can do that trick on comand. All I do is increase the rate at which I turn the mould upright and "bingo" frosting on one side of the bullet. I believe that there is air trapped in the mould when you pour too fast, and that oxidizes the lead slightly. That is my story and I'm stick'n to it!
Keep on hav'n fun!
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BWoos
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:29 pm
- Location: St. Maries, Id.
My pot is a Lee production pot and the frosting is from the top driving band to the nose on one side. The temp. of the lead is 750 degrees. Also it isn't always on the same side of the mold. I can hold it handles to the left or to the right and the frosting always comes out on the side furthest from you as you are looking at the pot from directly in front of it. I've tried holding the mold up against the spout and also about a quarter inch away from it and let it fill up to a puddle on the sprue plate but I still get the frosting on the one side. I can't figure it out. 
Brian
Brian
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spook2
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 4:33 pm
- Location: Lake City, CO
Okay Troops, appreciate your thougthts, a couple of which might be on the track to my problem. Between being a professional road warrior, and the weather (don't cast when is rainy out), and/or the afternoon has included food and especially drink, have not had chance to see how they night improve my problem.
Howsomeever, I do very much enjoy and appreciate the wealth of information that's shared on this site. It is way cool... and come one Kirk... with a Sporter #3!
Howsomeever, I do very much enjoy and appreciate the wealth of information that's shared on this site. It is way cool... and come one Kirk... with a Sporter #3!
Spook2
Got the target; the friendlies are in sight; master arm on; I'm rollin' in hot. Experto Crede.
Got the target; the friendlies are in sight; master arm on; I'm rollin' in hot. Experto Crede.
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Michael F. Roche
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:05 pm
- Location: San Diego, CA
casting problems
[quote="Lee Stone"]Sorry for this repeat, but I did not notice a typo I had in my first one until it was already submitted and too late for corrections:
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are NOW married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.[/quote]
First you need a good thermometer. Lyman is good, the one sold by Bill Ferguson, "The Antimony man", is also good.
http://www.theantimonyman.com/
Turn the Waage pot on and melt some lead. Put in the thermometer. Set the thermoststat knob to the number that you want to represent the usual temperature you want to maintain. Then loosen the set screw that holds the pot's thermostat knob on and remove the knob, being careful not to disturb your setting. Look very closely into the center of the shaft the knob was on and you will see it is hollow and there is a small set screw in the center. With the thermometer in the melt, adjust that small set screw with an appropriately sized screw driver so the pot maintains the temperature you want. That temperature and the knob setting you chose are NOW married. Then put the knob back on and that setting will bring that temperature every time. I chose to set the knob on 8 and then I adjusted the set screw to bring the temperature to 800 degrees F. Since I usually cast at about 820 or 850 (depending on the mould I am using) it is very easy to repeat my settings. If over a long period of time the temperature starts to wander from your setting, just repeat the above procedure to realign the knob setting with your standard temperature.
That is all there is to it.[/quote]
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Michael F. Roche
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:05 pm
- Location: San Diego, CA
Casting Problems
Lee Stone, Thank you for the procedure for "marrying the thermostat knob and the temperature on the Waage electric pot. I did just that this afternoon. I just wanted to add that the temperature increases with the set screw turned counter clockwise and decreases with the set screw turned clockwise. Sure seems to take a long time when you turn the set screw the wrong way. Try and try again. Again thanks.
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Lead Pot
spook,
I been reading about your problem so I had to go and ifre up the lead pot and see if I could duplecate what your describing.
I dont know if your using the lead pot with a bottom pour or a ladle.
I pour with a ladle only for my rifle bullets.For the pistol bullets I use my old Lyman with tha bottom pour.What comes out for them I feel thats good enough for shooting 25-50 yards.
I pour at 750-775 degs.and I use 1-25 for my .40 caliber bullets and 1-30 for the .45's
I hold the mould with the sprue plate on it's side dip down to the bottom of the pot to fill the ladle.I put the nipple of the ladle into the counter sunk fill hole and tip the mould up and let the mould fill all the way and hold it about 3 seconds tight on the plate aten just lift it enough so the alloy runs on the plate till the ladle is empty( hold it over the pot ,yes I can make a mess)I get bullets that shine like a polished silver dollar.
Now I poured some in different ways.I held the mould flat with the sprue plat on top and poured a few.I did'nt get any frosting but I did get a uneven shaded bullet like you discribed,I guess you can call it a frosted look.
What I think causes that is the lead cools in the spigot enough and the lead is exposed to the air for a short time is enough get some oxidation.Spooks I dont know for sure,but I think that is what is going on.
I went back to the way I pour and the bullet came out good again.
So I thought I would dig out the bottom pour and try it with that.
The bottom pour pot has a fairly long nipple or spigot on it were it could cool the alloy to much in that short distance,so I went the way I mormally pour and I had just a little discoloration on one side, not bad.then I held the mould down were about one inch of lead in free air and the dull gray was just on one side but for just about most of the nose to the first driving band.
I dont know If I'm getting what you are spook. Try it and see if it helps you.
Kurt.
I been reading about your problem so I had to go and ifre up the lead pot and see if I could duplecate what your describing.
I dont know if your using the lead pot with a bottom pour or a ladle.
I pour with a ladle only for my rifle bullets.For the pistol bullets I use my old Lyman with tha bottom pour.What comes out for them I feel thats good enough for shooting 25-50 yards.
I pour at 750-775 degs.and I use 1-25 for my .40 caliber bullets and 1-30 for the .45's
I hold the mould with the sprue plate on it's side dip down to the bottom of the pot to fill the ladle.I put the nipple of the ladle into the counter sunk fill hole and tip the mould up and let the mould fill all the way and hold it about 3 seconds tight on the plate aten just lift it enough so the alloy runs on the plate till the ladle is empty( hold it over the pot ,yes I can make a mess)I get bullets that shine like a polished silver dollar.
Now I poured some in different ways.I held the mould flat with the sprue plat on top and poured a few.I did'nt get any frosting but I did get a uneven shaded bullet like you discribed,I guess you can call it a frosted look.
What I think causes that is the lead cools in the spigot enough and the lead is exposed to the air for a short time is enough get some oxidation.Spooks I dont know for sure,but I think that is what is going on.
I went back to the way I pour and the bullet came out good again.
So I thought I would dig out the bottom pour and try it with that.
The bottom pour pot has a fairly long nipple or spigot on it were it could cool the alloy to much in that short distance,so I went the way I mormally pour and I had just a little discoloration on one side, not bad.then I held the mould down were about one inch of lead in free air and the dull gray was just on one side but for just about most of the nose to the first driving band.
I dont know If I'm getting what you are spook. Try it and see if it helps you.
Kurt.