Star lubrisizer QUESTIONS

[IronSight]

Been thinking on ordering a Star lubrisizer because i like the idea of sizing a bullet nose first into the sizing die which eliminates the nose punch problems of the Lyman, RCBS & Saeco. Magma Eng. now has the manufacturing rights seen here: http://www.magmaengr.com/star.html
I contacted Magma in regards to their options and got confusing emails back which really didn't answer my questions.

So here are my questions:
- Their website doesn't list die sizes, are the dies custom made?
- Do i need the bullet feeder with .30 conversion? what is this?
- Heated base option?
- Is the lube airfeed option needed?
- The bullet punch, why do they need to know if its going to be used for soft alloy bullets? seems one base punch would work for all bullets.
- Any other options to consider?

And finally what experiences do you all have with this sizer?
Would you recommend it?

By the way the Magma Homepage has an interesting casting topic index for beginners at: http://www.magmaengr.com/index.php

Any help, comments, recommendations or NOT would be appreciated.
Thanks

[crazeyiven]

This brings up another question. I too have read that it is better to run a bullet through nose first instead of base first.

The articles referred to a "bottom punch."

I have a RCBS lube machine. I have not checked to see if it is mechanically feasable to "convert" an nose punch to a bottom punch.

I've read on this site a lot about filling the cavity in the nose punch with hot glue, epoxy, etc., & matching the nose to the filler.

Does anyone have any experience with perhaps filling the nose punch level and using it as a bottom punch?

Thoughts, suggestions, comments welcome!

Thanks,

David

[Lead Pot]

IronSight
I will answer some of you questions.some things you ask I have never heard of.
I been using my star since the 60's and I never have delt with the new Company so I cant say anything about them.
The lube airfeed I dont know what that could be.
I never used a bullet feeder,never knew they were made.
I dont know why the hardness of the alloy makes any difference,I run pure lead to 1-20 alloy works good for all that.Unless they offer a cup base or hollow base punch,The cupbase punch could put a ring on the base if you try to swage a bullet several thousands down.I use a flat base punch.
I do have a heated base option.When I was heavy in pistol bullseye I used a hard lube and it worked good for that.But I think a heat lamp workes just as well.But the heater has a thermostat that regulates the temp better.
When I need dies I have been getting them fron Stillwell Tool and Die.
He will make you just about anything,I have his dies all the way to .540 diameter.
The Star I think is about the best out there.I also use the RCBS.Which is a good tool.I never used a Saeco but I have a friend that uses one and it is a good tool.
I dont have to much to say about a Lyman.

The star does have one drawback I feel.The dies are a little on the short side for the very long bullets,with five or six grooves.It wont catch them all.I been thinking about calling Stillwell to see If it is posible to make a longer die like the RCBS.
I like the pressurized system you can punch a lot of bullets out in a hurry.And it's good for those that make there owne lube It takes a solid sick.Just take a 1" brass tube and cut the sticks from your bulk lube and drop it in.You dont have to push that threaded rod through the lube like you have to with the RCBS.

crazeyiven

I have done that to my nose punches it works good with hot glue or liquit steel.

I dont know about the bottom punch,unless they are talking about the die removal punch.
You take out the top punch and feed that tool through the die from the bottom and screw it into the top ounch holder thread and lift the die out.
As far as converting the nose punch to a bottom punch on the RCBS,You might get away with that for short pistol bullets but not the long rifle bullets.You might get one or two lube grooves doing that.
Sorry that I cant answer all your questions.I rate the Star pretty high.It has served me well through the years with out a problem.I even had one of there loading press set up for .38 and .45 pistol.

Kurt

[crazeyiven]

Kurt-

Thanks for the response. I'll have to take a look at that and see what it does.

Thanks for the input.

David

[IronSight]

Lead Pot - thanks for your thorough reply,
Each time i contacted Magma, they threw even more options at me. Maybe this is a marketing ploy to sell more stuff than is needed.

As far as the bottom punch, i believe you may be on to something.. maybe cupped based bullets require a different punch. But why don't they just say this.

The bullet feeder and airfeed lube options from what i gather might have something to do with production lube-sizing.

From Magma's replies and your input, it looks like they machine dies on demand - maybe good, maybe not.

Since your a Star user and never heard of some of these options, you answered my questions - i don't need them.

Thanks again

[Harlan Sage]

IronSight

funny you posted this today. I just started to use my new star this afternoon. I had some problems but I think I'm getting through them. First off...you need a die with the lube holes that line up with the lube grooves on the bullet , the star lubes the grooves rather that pushing the bullet thru the lube. Most of the bullet molds and dies Magma offers are shot bullets with one, two or three grooves. I had to send to Magma my bullets so they could make the dies. The biggest problem I had was the top punch was too long for the long BPCR bullets that we use. It pushed the bullet to far thru the die and could make up enough with the adjustment. I cut off 1/4" off the punch and works great.

About the air pressure...I don't think it's neccessary. Without the air, it has a spring pressure on the lube with allows you to lube a quite a few bullets before screwing down more pressure. Too much pressure and you'll get lube squeezing out the port between bullets.

Magma doen't offer much for instructions, but after a couple of phone calls and some hair pulling I do like the tool. I especially like the feed through, you can lube alot of bullets in a hurry.

I'll have more figured out tomarrow.

Harlan

[IronSight]

Harlan,
Appreciate any info you have on this thing, but it sounds like it won't size 525gr. 45 cal bullets right out of the box. What was the cost and turn-around time for the 4 groove die?
Also, if i undersrood your post correctly, the bullet is fed nose down into the die? Do you have any idea what the 30 cal conversion option is? And why would one need the swivel handle option, whatever that is? They strongly recommended this.
Thanks

[Harlan Sage]

IronSight

The conversion kit I believe is the tube that auto feeds the bullets into the die. As for the swivel handle, I don't know what that is, I guess I don't have it.
You are correct, the bullets feed nose down, so you don't have to have a special top punch.

I'm still in the learning process, but I can tell you the Star is a hellava lot better than the Lyman.

I will post more as I use it more.

Harlan

[Lead Pot]

Harlen.

I also cut a little off my top punch,but I went a step further and took the die down to my local Machine shop.
Bill shruges his head between his shoulders when I walk in the door
I thurned down the inside top a little,.155,and drilled 3 more holes below the top band to lube some of my longer 5 and 6 groove bullets from some of my older dies.I plug the holes I dont need with no9 lead shot.I have a lot more selectivity with the die.
Loosing strength is not a problem for me because I dont swage the bullet diameter down,I just lube.
By increasing the lube chanel I have a lot more selectivity with different bullet lube grooves.I wish star would make the lube chanel on the outside of there die like the RCBS.physical length of the Star die and RCBS is the same,but the lube chanel on the Star is a little short for my liking.

Kurt

[Lead Pot]

Sorry Harlan.

I should learn to proof read.
It should have read turned down outside die body

[squire pickett]

Evening Iron Sight,

I like my Star quite a lot and have lubed several thousand bullets with it, mostly pistol bullets, .45s, .38s, .38-40s and rifle bullets in .38-55. For pistol bullets it is great and will easily lube hundreds per hour.

Rifle bullets take a bit more finess. My 38-55 is a custom that Steve Brooks cut into blocks supplied by Magma. The bullet has a small flat meplat rather than a rounded nose because the Star requires the bullets push each other out the bottom of the die. The folks at Magma asked you about the punch because their standard will cup the base of a soft lead bullet as is started into the die. The options are order a punch of a diamater to fit the inside of the die, or to put a wad between the bullets or order a die that only lubes rather than lubes and sizes.

The bullets must have at least a small flat meplat in order to work. DH and I relearned this earlier this week when we tried to lube some round nosed postel style 38-55 bullets. The round nose was deformed and the bases cupped on the first few tries and then I realized even a between wad could not work due to the bullet nose shape.

I have extensively used a lyman and RCBS lube/sizers and the Star is hands down the cadillac of the bunch but requires the flat meplat to work properly. The upside is the Star will do a capable job with the longer rifle bullets and Magma is easy to deal with and will supply whatever dies you need for a reasonable price.

Regards,
Squire

[Harlan Sage]

I got back to my star luber/sizer today.

This time I used my heater and it works like a dream. The larger bullets does take a little finese. I realized that at first I was trying to force too much lube into the grooves. With the right spring pressure and the heater and learning the feel of the piston pumping the lube this is a terrific lubersizer.

Harlan

[IronSight]

Sounds like you guys are all having positive experiences withe the Star. I would be using it primarily for lubing but might be experimenting with light sizing also. Never having seen one of these, the mechanics is still a little baffling. The Magma website doesn't go into much detail.

Squire Pickett,
I think you answered one of my earlier questions regarding the bullet feeder tube option. If i understand your description correctly, the bullets are lined up in a tube(verticle?) nose down and pressure is applied to the bullet at the top of the tube which will consequently push the bottom bullet into the die; is this correct?

If this is correct, then bullet deformation seems like a big DOWN SIDE with the Star, especially with round or pointed nose bullets as you mentioned! And add to this soft 30/1 alloy bullets.
Kinda defeats the whole idea of eliminating nose punches and pushing bullets into the die from the base which on the surface sounds like a good idea. So far it seems this system was designed for short-stubby-flat nosed pistol bullets and high throughput lube/sizing as you guys mention.

-Why does Magma list this bullet tube as an option?
-Can the tube be removed somehow to hand feed the bullets into the die one at a time to avoid nose deformation?

Again never seen one these things.
Thanks

[Lead Pot]

IronSight

The star is straight forward like any other lube sizer you have to adjust them all to get the lube were you want it. Like I said I use the star and RCBS, both are good. I use some odd ball style bullets that need just a little more fiddeling betting the lube were I want it.That is why I alter the die in the Star to get the lube were I want it. I dont know a thing about Magma I have never delt with them,but the old Star you sent the bullet you want to use or give them a mould number and they will match the die and punch.
I turned the outside of some of my dies to get more lube holes in the die body to fit some of my bullets.I think the die could be made this way at the Factory so you have a better selection with the hole spacing in the die wall.Just put a lead shot in the hole you dont need.

Dont worry about deforming the bullet nose,I use one of Paul Jones 40003 spitzers a very sharp nosed bullet I push it through nose first with a flat base punch, I dont size it just lube.It does not deform or put any markes on the nose or base.

I dont use a bullet feeder or air,I just finger feed the bullet.

It's a great tool, a little pricy, but well worth it.I dont know when I got this tool but it was back in the early sixtys and never had to replace a thing on it.

If you get one get the flat punch if you plan on using the longer rifle bullets.

If you want to size and lube pistol bullets get the punch that fits the ogive of the bullet and push it through base first. The shorter say 200 gr..45 or 158 gr .38 bullets push through base first.


Kurt

[squire pickett]

Afternoon Ironsight,

First of all the Star cannot be described. A retired engineer friend of mine has two and he spent a lot of time pestering me to get one but never could tell me how it worked in a way that I could understand. By the way the Star was purchased by Magma and they make it to the original specifications. The new ones made today are ever bit the equal of the originals.

I was in Court when the package arrived and the girls told me about it when I called the office between hearings. Asked one of them to call Nick and tell him to come over and help me put the thing together. Thought he would enjoy it and would save me the trouble of trying to figure out the instructions. By the time I got back to the office for lunch he was sitting at the table in our office kitchen with the package in front of him, beaming like a kid with a Christmas present. I told him to open it up and when he did I hit the intercom to ask my office manager where the other package was. She said there was just one and I said, can't be, there must be another box because this one only has half the parts. After Nick got through laughing he said Squire, (all my friends call me Squire) let me explain something. This tool is so well engineered that the components are designed to serve more than one purpose. He said watch this and put his hands around the unit and, he is a big guy, but his hands almost completely covered the whole thing. Being used to the Lyman/RCBS types I still couldn't see how it worked until Nick started taking off parts, reversing them, saying this is how you insert the die and this is how you reverse the part and then this is what it does, etc. Then it all made sense. I am not impressed by much but this thing was an eye opener.

The Magma folks basically make commercial casting machines and the Star was a natural extension of their business. You don't need the bullet tube or the heater, or several other options if your purpose is BPC reloading. All the dodads accomplish is to allow lube/sizing of a thousand bullets per hour instead of the 400-500 that you can do by hand.

The dies are also difficult to describe. They come with 12 offset holes and a packet of what appears to be #8 bird shot. You allign the bullet in the die to where the grooves line up and tap shot into the other holes. Quite simple and very effective. If you change to a bullet with more or different groves just pick out the shot with a dental pick or pocket knife, I recommend the pick, and go forth.

Lead Pot is right except I put the bullets through nose first. Works either way, just line up the holes the way you want them and fill in the rest. The long Postel or pointed rifle bullets will work fine but you have to do them one at a time as opposed to one after the other. Cuts your production time to about 200 per hour. The dies as made will accomidate up to four grease grooves and can be modified by the user or Magma for more grooves. Or they will make what you want. They offered to cut the interior dimensions of a die to my specifications at no additional charge.

The Star doesn't use the allignment arms of the other designs so there is very little to wear or get out of whack. A guy who loads and shoots a thousand rounds a month cannot wear one out in his lifetime.

Regards.
Squire