My Case for a Bigger Case

[Rhumbline]

Hello all!

Yep, I'm new and it's my first post. I've been scouring this forum for a couple weeks and what a fantastic resource it is. Although not new to BP I am now learning BPCRs. I just sent off my order for a Shiloh rifle today and now that the deed is done (although it sounds as though I've plenty of time to change my mind) I'll seek a little advice. If I'm dredging up a topic well discussed I apologize.

The caliber I ordered is 45-120. I'm not sure why except that I really WANT it! I probably can't fend any Freudian observations but apart from the recoil and a bit more expense reloading, are there any known disavantages to this cartridge size? Are there any known advantages that might bolster my selection? I can add that I've no intentions of shooting competetively and this rifle will be used for hunting (almost exclusively elk) and fired enough to remain proficient for that purpose. Also, I've a fairly ample frame and have never been squeemish about what's going to happen to my shoulder when I squeeze the trigger. The slight gasp the nice lady at Shiloh made when I specified the caliber kinda got the wheels turning again though.

Thanks for any thoughts on the matter anyone might have.

Rhumbline

[TJW]

Rhumbline, since you are primarily interested in hunting did you consider the "big 50", the 50-90? All the big gun fans on this forum say it's far better than the 45s for knocking down game. The bigger hole, fewer steps after the shot.

[sackett]

When I first order my Shiloh, I ordered it in 45-120. I wanted the biggest thing out there. Then something came over me, and I wound up going with the 45-110. Not sure what it was, but I have never complained about the switch, and I am glad it did it.

Personally, I would have go with the 45-110. I say this because, like you said, brass is cheaper and more speciality hand loading tools are avalible or cheaper (example is the Reading Comp Seater die which isn't made for the 120 or the hand de-capper for BA which is more money for the 120). I also perfer the 45-110 because it was the largest 45 cal. round chambered in the orginal Sharps rifle and my feeling on the 45-120 now is, it overkill.

Just curious, what are you getting? Barrel length and weight? Shotgun, Cresent, Military Buttstock? DST or ST?

Sackett

[Capt. Call]

I ordered my gun back in early November and went through the same thing you are going through now. I have always believed in bigger is better and biggest is best . I thought that I wanted the 45-120 just like you but after having done some research this is what I have found. The most important thing is to know what you expect from your gun in terms of accuracy. The 45-120 has never bin considered the most accurate of the 45s. Case life is very short as I am told. A friend of my brother has one and he said that he never gets any more than 3 loadings out of his cases. He was also nice enough to let me shoot his gun, it was more of a shotgun pattern than anything that could be called a group.He then told me that this was the best he could get out of it "But He was Happy". I would say it was good enough for hunting out to 200 hundred yards--MAX! But I am also sure that there are people out there getting better results. From what I was able to gather, the 45-120 is already at what they call " The Point of Diminishing Returns"---where even though you are putting in more powder [and brass in this case] all you are getting back is problems---more fouling, stretched casings and recoil. All this being said----I ordered a 45-110---It was the best choice for me but just the sight of that 3.25 loaded round "Was All Inspiring".

[MLV]

You'll be sorry.

[Rhumbline]

Thanks to all so far,

To forego any appearance of rudeness, I'd like to say I'll be away from this device for the next several days so any lack of acknowledgement is no consequence of inattention.

TJW, I did, in fact, consider a larger bore. I own no BP firearm with less. On the other hand I thought that, in this case, I might be wandering in a little over my head and preferred to seek a balance; but there's always the next rifle...right?

Sackett, I've no doubt I may reach the same conclusion as you. As for the rest, I've, in this case, succumbed to the L.A. basin (I've no wish to say the name of that place nor mention the larboard coast and spark any other debate in this thread whatsoever) but the model I've chosen is the 1874 Sharps Buffalo or perhaps as popularly known as the "Quigley".

Captain Call, This is precisely why I made this post. Money couldn't buy this insight. I'm thinking what you were. On the other hand, I'm afraid it'll nag at me until I give'r a try. But, again, then there's the next rifle...right? By the way, I too cannot tolerate rudeness in a man.

MLV, I suspect you may be right. I guess though, I'm prone to make the same ol' mistakes as the next guy. Any reason for your concern? You may tip the scale. If not, and I am sorry, I owe you a coke!

Thanks again folks! Magnificent!

Rhumbline

[N2]

Rhumbline - You may have a high tolerance for recoil, but you're about to experience a whole new level with the 45-120 and the military butt stock on that Quigley model. To top it off it's not an historically correct caliber in a Sharps. The 45-120 is a $600 mistake, not counting brass and dies, but it's your $600. At least it's easily correctable. You will undoubtably enjoy the quality of workmanship in your Shiloh. - Nick

[Bearbait2]

Contrary to what others have said, the .45-120 ia NOT a mistake if it is what YOU want. Only you can decide. Best of luck!
Shoot Straight

[Jim Watson]

I know of only two .45 x 3 1/4" hereabouts - and one of them is really .450 x 3 1/4", a British .450 BPE. My friend enjoys centerfire plinking and close cover deer hunting with his Webley, but it is NOT an accurate rifle, even though he has done more load development on it than on his .45-70 target rifle. The .45 x 3 1/4" Sharps was spec'ed, ordered together with reloading gear, and delivered. Apparently delivered down a well, it has not been seen or reported at our local range. I suspect is was a disappointment in the shooting and is now in the back row of a gun case.

For your FIRST BPCR I will go with the conventional wisdom and recommend a .45 x 2 1/10". Plain old .45-70 with 130 years of development. When (if) that palls on you, it can always be rechambered to a more manly cartridge. It is hard to de-chamber one that is bought too big by mistake.

Me?
What do I know?
I shoot a .38-55.

[Capt. Call]

Well Dang Rhumbline you should have said that you would pay for this information--- After shooting his 45-120 he was telling me about an Elk Hunting Trip that his wife had bought him for this fall. When I asked if he was going to use the Sharps his answer was " HELL NO---She paid allot of money for this trip and I want to Kill what I am aiming at!" Needless to say thats when I knew I wanted the 45-110. If you don't mind sir--could you make mine a Pepsi?----------And as far as this MLV guy knowing what he is talking about----YES---Well at least the people over at Shooting Times Magazine seem to think so!

[Todd Birch]

One of my pals nick named "Tiny" (naturally) has a .45-120. He weighs in excess of three hundred pounds and it rattles him.
I can barely hold the beast up and after three shots from x-sticks told him to take the %*#! from my hands - now. My vision was blurred.

A second .45-120 is currently in the hands of it's fourth owner. No one enjoys sitting behind it.

The British 3 1/4" cases were generally loaded with bullets no heavier than 480 grs (military) and lighter for "Express" loadings in sporting rifles.
Ross Seyfried writes extensively on the topic of British sporting rifles and feels that the bullet type needs to be suited to the game - hard ,soft, whatever. He proves his point with field experience.

The Brits carried on this tradition well into the smokeless era with cordite loadings. Everything in the British Empire fell to their guns.

You pays you money - you takes you choice.

Todd

[horsefly]

Good Morning, Board;

I'll not comment on whether you should want the .45-120 or not. One time, I bought a highwall in that caliber for the action. As it sat, it weighed about 9 1/2 pounds.

In the deal I got the dies and eighty rounds of brass. Seventy rounds of it had not been fired. The other ten had been fired once.

I still have the barrel. I'm going to make something else out of it.

Y'all be good.

horsefly

[AL Rittenhouse]

It's just that Coydog KOOL factor here taking over another man. It's that wana be KOOL thats gonna make you wish you listened to the guys.

[Luke]

Rhumbline, please do yourself a big favor and order the rifle in .45-70. Reasons: first, it will teach you everything you need to know about loading BP at minimal expense, with satisfying results right off. And should you decide you do not like BP (shocking I know, but some do) you have a rifle in a powerful smokeless caliber warrentied all the way up to Ruger #1 load levels. IN addition, should you like BP, and learn to load it well, It is a simple matter to have Kirk run your chamber out to whatever length you want, for less than $100 if I remember right, as the same twist rate is used in all the .45 barrels. And do one other thing. Go here: http://www.ycsi.net/users/mlventurino/ and get the "Buffalo" book. Best Single shot BPCR primer written, get you started right, and right off.

[Luke]

Forgot to mention, if you want to hunt, when loaded with 500 grain bullets the BP loaded .45-70 will cleanly kill anything on this continent inside 200 yards. And thats all the farther you want to hunt with any BP cartridge. Don't confuse hunting ranges with Target ranges, as many do when first considering these rifles. True, professional Buffalo Runners shot buff up to 600 yards, but thats why they were professionals.