Shiloh Rifle Forums

Sorry for the second post but it was too late to edit mine. The trick I found with the dowel is the wad is on top. The cartridge comes down over it. Much easier than trying to drop a thin wad down in there and just crushing it with the dowel.

Has anyone dismantled a compressed charge to see what happens to the under-powder wad? Just idle curiosity......

CHRIS

I did once when I learned to tighten my locking nut on my compression plug. Over compressed a load so I had to pull the bullet and had to deconstruct the powder. Huge pain in the butt. Didn’t do anything to the under powder wad. Looked the same as it went in.

Thank you Tom, and others!
I like what you’ve described, Tom, and I’m going to follow through with this. Gary, for one, has continually encouraged me to use/try these coffee filters in the past. I previously decided to put paper over the primer when seating the primer. I had some great results in doing this, but I’m going the way of positioning the paper inside the case instead. The chrono really proves this to be more consistent. Thanks, you guys, for posting your findings. I’ll follow…
Robert

I got a 40 cal wad punch from BACo. Stack up 5 papers and use a small hammer to mass produce wads. When I drop it in the case, they fall flat, no fooling around required.

Maybe the next thing to do is chrono test ten rounds loaded each way, ten without the wads and ten with the wads. I think that with good loading technique, the difference is probably small, but there should be a difference nonetheless.

As my buddies in the precision game say, “buy all the points you can and then practice for the rest”….

Punching the wads..... Hard to beat a suitable cutter turned at low speed in a drill press. Back the stack of paper with a pine board. Very nice, neat, fast, and easy cutting.

CHRIS

I have been patiently waiting for someone to point out the obvious memorialized on this thread. So far, patience wasted.

Earlier Herr Wasserberger wrote: Where it shows up is in vertical, at long range especially, a real eye opener was at 1 mile where I set a
record for #of hits in a 10 shot string of fire of 8/10.

A later measurement showed my hits were in 18 inches from top strike to bottom strike, at 1 mile.

I have seen it written many times and expounded verbally many times that the best you can expect from these BPCR guns is 2 MOA accuracy.

One mile is approximately 1,760 yards, is 18 inches of vertical is essentially one minute of angle at 1,760 yards?

I observed a target fired at 600 yards, 4 sighters, 10 for record. 14 shots less than two inches vertical measured.

I have spotted for shooters that shot ten record shots at 1,000 yards that were less vertical than the height of the X ring. Several times.

The question I am asking is this, if you cease your load development at two minutes of angle are you engaged in lowered expectations.



PS-as for the two shots that did not impact steel? There is the possibility, however remote, that the fault was not attributable to rifle or load.

Jack,

I wasn't going to contribute anything else to this subject.
My thought on the cause of vertical is not from a little dust getting into the flash hole. You can drop random powder loads that will vary several tenths of a grain and you will see hardly any increase in velocity or the impact on the paper.
My thought on vertical is a loss of pressure behind the bullet and the stability of that projectile causing yaw. The ES and SD over the chronograph could show up with the loss of pressure not for a little dust in the flash hole.

A super low ED (and SD) is what allows Kenny and these other shooters to have that tight of a vertical spread at distance. In a modern bolt gun running a 6 or 6.5mm whatever, 15 fps ES equals about 4” vertical spread at 1000 yards, all else being equal.

If you can keep your ES down to around 10, your SD will drop down to only a couple fps (in a 10 shot group). At that point, you have ammo that can deliver 1 MOA or less at long range (in theory)…..

desert deuce wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:01 pm The question I am asking is this, if you cease your load development at two minutes of angle are you engaged in lowered expectations.

One factor you are missing, DD is there are a lot of shooters out there,who for various reasons, just are not sub 2 moa shooters. Trying to get that last moa can be an effort in futility. Learning to interpolate your results can help a lot.

Not that I don't agree with your premise that a sub moa load is imperative to good results.

Not that I don't agree with your premise that a sub moa load is imperative to good results.

Thank you Brian. Achieving 2 MOA at 200 yards for me (10 shots) is a very good, but rare
day. At 1,000 yards it’s a miracle in waiting. But I admire these shooters who do so much better, especially with consistency. I’m convinced range time is the critical factor focused on one’s shooting mechanics and reading learning how to read the wind. I’m a slow learner but am encouraged by all signs of results. Shockingly, retirement hasn’t increased range time all that much, false expectations.

One thing I’d like to see is an interest in matches using only barrel iron sights. And in lever shoots, offhand only at all ranges. That comes from my start in BP shooting with round ball muzzle loading, still a great contest but fallen off in popularity.

It’s a rare thing to find extremely skilled shooters sharing their ‘secrets of success’ with the populous, encouraging them/us to press on into these secrets that they’ve worked very hard to discover. In a few words, that’s true character right there. Thank you, fellas!
R