Shiloh Rifle Forums

Kenny Wasserburger wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:08 pm Loose the Lyman #2 Alloy. Get a good lead tin alloy, start at 20-1. Binary alloys….you can thank us later.


Kenny Wasserburger

Please explain why, casting is new to me. I had been under the impression that a softer mix would cause leading, and thought #2 should help avoid it.

Leading is caused more by improper bullet fit with the bore than by hardness. You can have a very successful bullet with a soft alloy. Increasing hardness is normally the avenue taken by commercial casters because their bullets need to fit a wide variety of different chamberings and bore diameters.

This book covers the basics of casting. It's free for you to use/print off on your home computer.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Your thinking is wrong, I won’t spend time to try and convince you.

The most successful shooters in this game are using binary alloys of lead and tin, anywhere from 1-12 to 1-20. Tin to lead. Both in paper patched and grease groove. This comes from years of experience and tens of thousands of rounds down range.

You have been good honest information, it’s now in your ball court as what you choose to do.


Kenny Wasserburger

Good word Kenny. It make sense to start with a proven alloy. Thank you for opening my eyes. Merry Christmas. Tim.

Why is antimony to be avoided?

I'm a stone cold rookie with this, but I think it has to do with the way that antimony hardens the lead...something about the chemical structure of the resulting alloy.

When we shoot a round of BP ammo, we need the bullet to obturate. It shortens just a little amount, caused by the near instantaneous burning of all the BP present. This super fast burn curve is so sudden that the bullet can't move fast enough and the bullet gets a little bit fatter as a result. This makes for a great fit with the bore, and very fine accuracy can be achieved as a result. Hardened alloys don't work as well for this, and antimony alloys can be brittle as well. That's the last thing you need.

For a long time, I mined the berms at my local club for lead and smelted it down. That's great for cranking out a bunch of 9mm and 38 and 44 bullets, but it's not great for long range rifle shooting. There reason is that its an unknown alloy, and bullets from one casting session may not shoot the same as bullets from another casting session. Now, my rifles don't see anything but 20-1 from John Walters in Oklahoma. His number is (405) 799-0376. Prices are right, and he ships flat rate. Really good guy. Do yourself a huge favor and go with a known, two part alloy.

Others more knowledgeable than myself may come by and correct anything I messed up here or add other things I might have missed, but I think I'm directionally correct.

And then there's the "Quigley" alloy. But prob best not to delve into that quagmire.

Higher antimony content tends to age harden. If you cast say the #2 up and shoot it right away if the rifle likes it and the load you'll be fine. But if you do a batch of say 4-500 ahead of a shooting season, you'll run into some weird misses or shots not running to call at the longer distances... Don't ask me how I found that out...
20-1 works well for most bpcr bullets especially at distances under 600, beyond that nose slump can have some bad affects beyond 800.
16-1 will shoot consistently from powder burn close to the 1000 yd and further, and some are having great success with 12 and 14-1.
18-1 is another pretty decent choice and you can make it up by simply combining equal amounts of 20-1 and 16-1 in the pot. The problem comes if you don't completely empty the pot you may end up with something of a lopsided alloy. So therefore I think its best if buying premixed alloy to pick one and stick with it.

I'm an Advocate of using antimony in my bullet alloy.
When a bullet leaves the muzzle looking like these in the photo's and they don't hit center it's not the fault of the alloy.
I know a shooter that uses a mix of WW and Linotype and seen him shoot a 99 with one just in the 9 ring less than a 1/2" at 800 yards. That is a very rich mix of antimony.

These bullets were shot in a .45-70, .45-90, .44-77 and a .40-65

Im with you Kurt! Ive switched to the 17+1 and it works very well. No rifling past the patch line. Ive used that WW+Lino in my 38-55 and with SPG lube I've had zero leading and it shoots very well!

If I remember correctly that 800yd score is yet to be beat at Lodi, it was a 40-65 to boot.

My impression of "custom casters" is that they will make bullets out of anything they can melt.

CHRIS

Yes, who says that antimony alloys don't shoot. My ww/lino alloy,
estimated at about 94.5% lead, 4.5% antimony,1% tin
beltfed/arnie

The key to shooting hard, antimony containing bullets is the base bands diameter has to be at freebore/groove to plus 1 or 2 thou.
So, they do not have to "bump up".
Kenny, note how your DDEPP bullet fits. I know that 16+1 works with them.
But, You could use hard, absolutely non slumping bullets, though,
too.
beltfed/arnie

Arnie,

Currently I am using a alloy to get that 16-1 using soldier that Kurt mentioned from 20-1 down to 16-1 it has shown promise but my antimony content is in the final mix less than 1%. Ian has tried up to 5% with his patched to bore bullets, yet has decided to cut back. I honestly think it can be too much of a good thing.

Kenny

Arnie,

Currently I am using a alloy to get that 16-1 using soldier that Kurt mentioned from 20-1 down to 16-1 it has shown promise but my antimony content is in the final mix less than 1%. Ian has tried up to 5% with his patched to bore bullets, yet has decided to cut back. I honestly think it can be too much of a good thing.

Kenny