Shiloh Rifle Forums

mike herth wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:03 pm BPCR Shooter, Were you one of the Wisconsin guys at the Ironman match last week? I assume both were shooting PP. A common question is how well PP shooters are doing at the various matches with this “new” technology. I suspect the numbers are growing but it’s hard to tell if not reported.

Mike,

No I wasnt there, but.... I do now load for 5 different rifles with a DDPP bullet and all take maybe 2-3 trips to the range before a darn good load is found. Now Im a real picky guy who will "tinker" as my wife puts it for months just to get another .125 smaller group, but thats the fun part for me! They DO work

Ive shot some pretty decent scores at Lodi, I push to be in the top 5 at least but, I have a lot to learn!! and with the help I get out there I learn something new every year. Last fall if I remember correctly in the top 10 shooters, 9 of us were shooting PP. I just found a load for my 38-55 with DDPP bullets and will be using that for mid-range TR when I can. That was 2 trips with 2different loads, and Im at MOA. I also found a load with the Lyman 378674 GG bullet I just like the PP better. I know there are LOTS of darn good shooters all over this world who use GG bullets but, there is just something about a PP bullet I find fascinating. Everyone knows, if YOU have faith in your loads YOU will shoot better because your not focused on having a sub-par round, and having a bullet that was designed for YOUR rifle's dimensions, your rifles twist goes a long way!!!

Im in no way knocking the GG guys, there are LOTS who shoot way better than I probably ever will, to me its no different than a one guy who uses a Money bullet and the other who uses a Postell, we just choose to wrap ours in paper. Honestly, Im happy that people are still shooting these old rifles like I have all my life, and will continue to til I cant!!


matt

Distant Thunder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:19 pm Dang Matt, but that's cool looking bullet! Kinda proves my point, don't it!

Yes.........Yes it does!! I am hooked for life on PP bullets. Do they shoot any better??? probably not, do they look better you damm right they do!

matt

By the way I found a darn good load for my shiloh 45-90 with that bullet you designed for me and will be testing it in a 45-70 soon. If all works out like I want, it will be used in 45-70(x2), 45-90, and 45-100.

matt

It's the best design I have found in all the ones I've tried. It's pretty simple and it works well in my .45-90 and my .45-70. I hope to make one for my .44-77 later this summer, but there is a lot to do before I can get to that.

Now Don, DT and Matt.
You guys have just got to quit talking to DD and Steve about these paper patch bullets.
If they started showing up at matches with those bullets we wouldn't stand a chance with the women!!
Plus as insufferable as they are now, can you imagine how they would be if they started winning with them??
Well DD anyways!!

I don't know but if you look closely at the scores from the Desert International there's a few relays between 5 and 800 yards that paper patch shooters came close enough to get DD a little rattled...
But if you really want to get him to bouncing around like a rabid chipmunk on a sugar high just tell him how great you think the 243 winchester is.

Don McDowell wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:57 am I don't know but if you look closely at the scores from the Desert International there's a few relays between 5 and 800 yards that paper patch shooters came close enough to get DD a little rattled...
But if you really want to get him to bouncing around like a rabid chipmunk on a sugar high just tell him how great you think the 243 winchester is.

whats wrong with the 243!!! its a fantastic cartridge for deer. I even seen a youth shooting some pretty decent scores at 900yd with one!!

Show him picture of dead elk and a 243 sometime and see what happens.

Brain,

Finally there is someone else who understands my point. I kinda like the way things are now, let's not go rolling the dice here!

"...how great you think the 243 winchester is."

Oh come on now! For squirrels maybe! Good grief ! Besides, those wee calibers are a bitch to paper patch!

Can anyone tell me why the ODG gave PP away and went to GG in the first place?
I find I am shooting better with PP than I was with GG as well.
Keith

Keith,

I have often wondered the same thing. I'm going to take a guess at this.

Paper patching probably hit its peak in the 1870-1880 period when long-range target shooting was at its peak. While the Sharps and Remington rolling block continued in use for many years the repeaters began to be able to use more and more powerful rounds. Paper patch bullets work extremely well in the big bore single shots but not so much in the big lever guns. It can be done but it can have trouble too.

As the old single shots faded from use and the lever guns became all the rage the paper patch bullets followed the single shots.

I feel very fortunate to be able to follow the ODG and use paper patch bullets with a degree of success. For me it is the only way to shoot these rifles!

Richard Lawrence of Robbins and Lawrence invented the grease bullet for the 1853 sharps so it could shoot many rounds without cleaning. Harry Pope was a respected marksman and took up greased bullets. He stated that he thought that a barrel should shoot accurately with greased bullets for 50,000 rounds before needing to be replaced or rerifled. Many considered his word as the last word.

If barrel life was our only concern, we would rifle them and never fire a single round through them.

Greased bullets have been around for a very long time in one form or another. They can be very accurate and many, many people have shot them and continue to shoot them. I shoot them.

That being said they are not and never will be as cool as paper patch bullets. That's just the way it is. The paper patch bullet is the quintessential projectile of the single shot cartridge rifles and long-range muzzle loaders of the 1800s, that's a fact. As those firearms faded from use the paper patch bullet did as well. It is only with the resurgence of those firearms in modern day that the paper patch has also be resurrected.

Everyone should shoot the type of projectile that they want to and that serves them best. There is room for both in our sport.

If or when diapers wear my barrels out I will simply have them replaced, much like a race car driver does when he uses up a high performance motor.