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Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:03 pm
by Kenny Wasserburger
I am taking about casting before anyone gets the wrong idea.
Years ago I read an article about CW Roland, a very famous Schützen Shooter who had a device that constantly stirred the molten lead while casting.
Then later on Brother Steve Garbe wrote about this and mentioned Rowland again. I do not recall the gist of that article though now. I believe it was in a very early copy of the Bpcr News.
While I do not have such a device, I a do stir the pot to the count of ten then plunge the dipper to the bottom of the pot and bring it to the surface 3 times to purge the spout of ant possible dross before mating spout to mould at 90° to each other then rotating upright, a slight turn of the spout to the right then separate at a 7 count. This stirring and purge is done before every pour. From 38s to 45s.
I was casting this afternoon and this subject was on my mind. Bullet weights between a 40 cal mould and a 45 caliber mould later average about .3 of a grain in approximately 60 pours of each.
I do try quite hard to pour a very good quality bullet.
Kenny W.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:03 am
by Randy Bohannon
Kenny,
Good info on technique, I have always stirred the pot well before each pour . It makes sense to even the heat of the melt top to bottom before dipping the ladle . I will often stir with a pine wood grade stake for a little extra cleaning of melt and blending of the tin. Every little detail becomes more important in the scheme of things that are worth a darn.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:53 am
by DAVE ROELLE
Stirring the melt mechanically is a common practice in large die cast shops using both zinc and aluminum
Uniform melt and melt temp promotes
Uniform density in finished castings
Sounds like your process is working well
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:05 pm
by gunlaker
That's interesting timing Kenny. I just came back from a few days of practice and testing at our local silhouette range and was reading one of Paul Matthews books and he said the same thing about Rowland. Have you seen any books about Rowland? Matthews mentioned a few other things about him that I haven't seen elsewhere...
Chris.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:21 pm
by Kenny Wasserburger
Chris other than Ned Roberts book no.
And that info isn’t in his book.
It is probably in my Broadfoot collection on The Rifle and shooting and fishing.
Kenny
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:56 am
by bpcr shooter
It would be really nice if there a was a "master caster" that could make a video for us to see everything from once you get a new mold to the final product. Even toss in some problems if possible. I would be super appreciative if someone would do this for us!! .3gr would be fantastic to get! Thanks for that info!!
matt
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:51 am
by beltfed
Kenny,
Is that 0.3 grains total range or is it + - 0.3 grains?
Either way, that is darn good.
beltfed/arnie
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:44 pm
by gunlaker
bpcr shooter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:56 am
It would be really nice if there a was a "master caster" that could make a video for us to see everything from once you get a new mold to the final product. Even toss in some problems if possible. I would be super appreciative if someone would do this for us!! .3gr would be fantastic to get! Thanks for that info!!
matt
Kenny describes his casting process in his new book. I generally get the vast majority of my .45 cal bullets within +/- 0.3gr but sometimes it's +/- 0.4gr. I do 100 round batches and toss the first 8 or 9 as the mold comes completely up to temperature.
In my mind to get consistent weight temperature of the mold and temperature of the melt are what you need to monitor. And use good ladle. You need to monitor temperature very closely. I mostly use Lee pots and I look at the temperature every time I hear the pot click when it kicks in. This tells you if it's trying to get too hot.
For the mold temp, the length of time it takes for the sprue puddle to solidify tells you a lot about the temperature of the mold. I count the number of seconds from when I remove the ladle until it freezes. Another clue to mold temperature is how easily the bullet drops, and if it sticks, which cavity does it stick in. Many of my Buffalo Arms bullets stick in the left cavity when they are coming up to temperature, and will stick in the right cavity when too hot. Not sure why it switches, but it often does.
The rest of it is timing. I use my phone with a counter going the whole time. This completely depends on ambient temperature. I'll wait the 6 seconds or whatever I'm using for sprue puddle freezing time. Then I look at the phone and make a note of the time. I'll wait as little as 10 seconds on a day where it's below freezing, and probably 25 seconds on a nice casting day. Say 45-60 degrees ambient. Hotter days I try not to cast, but then I might wait even longer. How the sprue looks when you cut it ( tearing = too cold, smearing too much = too hot ) as well as bullet sticking will be your guide here. Once you get a rythm, keep it going precisely.
Also, a little Hank Williams Jr playing in the background helps
Chris.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:47 pm
by gunlaker
Oh, and I don't cut the sprue until after my ( 25 second or so ) count from when the sprue freezes. Don't be in a big hurry to cut that sprue. Cut it with a gloved hand on the sprue plate just before you open it. For the entire time that sprue plate is open it's effectively a heat sink, cooling the block it's pivoted to.
Chris.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:03 pm
by Kenny Wasserburger
.3 of a grain total.
Kenny Wasserburger
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:08 pm
by Ray Newman
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:04 am
by bpcr shooter
gunlaker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:44 pm
bpcr shooter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:56 am
It would be really nice if there a was a "master caster" that could make a video for us to see everything from once you get a new mold to the final product. Even toss in some problems if possible. I would be super appreciative if someone would do this for us!! .3gr would be fantastic to get! Thanks for that info!!
matt
Kenny describes his casting process in his new book. I generally get the vast majority of my .45 cal bullets within +/- 0.3gr but sometimes it's +/- 0.4gr. I do 100 round batches and toss the first 8 or 9 as the mold comes completely up to temperature.
In my mind to get consistent weight temperature of the mold and temperature of the melt are what you need to monitor. And use good ladle. You need to monitor temperature very closely. I mostly use Lee pots and I look at the temperature every time I hear the pot click when it kicks in. This tells you if it's trying to get too hot.
For the mold temp, the length of time it takes for the sprue puddle to solidify tells you a lot about the temperature of the mold. I count the number of seconds from when I remove the ladle until it freezes. Another clue to mold temperature is how easily the bullet drops, and if it sticks, which cavity does it stick in. Many of my Buffalo Arms bullets stick in the left cavity when they are coming up to temperature, and will stick in the right cavity when too hot. Not sure why it switches, but it often does.
The rest of it is timing. I use my phone with a counter going the whole time. This completely depends on ambient temperature. I'll wait the 6 seconds or whatever I'm using for sprue puddle freezing time. Then I look at the phone and make a note of the time. I'll wait as little as 10 seconds on a day where it's below freezing, and probably 25 seconds on a nice casting day. Say 45-60 degrees ambient. Hotter days I try not to cast, but then I might wait even longer. How the sprue looks when you cut it ( tearing = too cold, smearing too much = too hot ) as well as bullet sticking will be your guide here. Once you get a rythm, keep it going precisely.
Also, a little Hank Williams Jr playing in the background helps
Chris.
Thanks Chris! I do all my casting inside so no worries about weather but, I will try the phone timer thing too!! I did get a copy of Kenny's book and have read that section many times, just thought it would be nice to see a mold set up from new in video form.
Matt
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:49 am
by gunlaker
Matt, I remember, maybe in old copies of the Black Powder Cartridge News, some nice articles on casting by Mike Venturino and Bob Glodt. All of Bob's articles in the BPCN are worth reading. He should have written a book.
Chris.
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:19 am
by DeadEye
Is Bob still with us? Hope he didn't tip over too. Lord, that was a beautiful Shiloh he had. It was on the cover of the BPCN at least once, I might still have that issue.
Paul
Re: Stirring the melt aka the pot.
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:05 am
by bpcr shooter
gunlaker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:49 am
Matt, I remember, maybe in old copies of the Black Powder Cartridge News, some nice articles on casting by Mike Venturino and Bob Glodt. All of Bob's articles in the BPCN are worth reading. He should have written a book.
Chris.
Than you for the info, I will have to look those articles up! Hopefully he (MV) sees these writings and chimes in! I will be reading Kenny's book yet again and with articles that have been posted on here I should get some improvement
matt
