Shiloh Rifle Forums

desert deuce wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:59 pm Correction, the 1,000 yard high score was a 16 twist Shiloh 45-100, 532 grain grease groove bullet.

What bullet style Zack ? Money, Postell, Creedmoor ?

Fwiw I think I would start out with a good government pattern bullet. It'll do everything you want to do, and is very forgiving of a new Sharps shooter.

OK Lumpy: The Nitty Gritty

532 grain Paul Jones grease groove Money bullet, 1-16 alloy, White Lightening lube, 92 grains Swiss 1.5, Starline Brass, GM210M primer

desert deuce wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:03 am OK Lumpy: The Nitty Gritty

532 grain Paul Jones grease groove Money bullet, 1-16 alloy, White Lightening lube, 92 grains Swiss 1.5, Starline Brass, GM210M primer

Thanks Zack.

ok DD, Just how much are you mashing the 92 gr. 1 1/2 for the GG. That is my charge with a PP bullet @.125" in case. On the surface it seems to be alot of compression for swiss?
kw

Now that part is TOP SECRET

KW I see shooters loading 83-87 grains of Swiss 1.5 in a 45-90 with grease groove bullets which is right up there case capacity wise to 92+ in a 100.

The reason how they do that is TOP SECRET is because they don't explain on their equipment list how they do it.

BTW: I hear from highly reliable sources that they have compressed Swiss 1.5 more than 0.300" in a 45-90 and achieved match grade accuracy. Yet suspect how the powder is introduced into the case has something to do with it. And another 84 grains in a 45-70 so I would guess necessity is the mother of invention in some cases. Kind of a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do situation.

anyone trying to keep up with your meanderings is liable to get confused.
I'm sure he is wise to your sleight of hand now.

Sorry SEMTAV, I try to write at the eighth grade level and understand even that is tricky for some.

desert deuce wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 5:23 am KW I see shooters loading 83-87 grains of Swiss 1.5 in a 45-90 with grease groove bullets which is right up there case capacity wise to 92+ in a 100.

The reason how they do that is TOP SECRET is because they don't explain on their equipment list how they do it.

BTW: I hear from highly reliable sources that they have compressed Swiss 1.5 more than 0.300" in a 45-90 and achieved match grade accuracy. Yet suspect how the powder is introduced into the case has something to do with it. And another 84 grains in a 45-70 so I would guess necessity is the mother of invention in some cases. Kind of a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do situation.

To get 87.5 in my 90, I had to use a 3 reduced band bullet and only have it in the case .250. In my 100, I got 98 with the same bullet. I now use DDPP in both. 97.3 and 108.5gr both .100 in the case. .060 wad eveytime and a Fed210m

desert deuce wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 8:24 am I try to write at the eighth grade level

You always were an overachiever!!

You are just jealous. That's OK, happens a lot.

Returning to twist...

I read a couple of older posts on 16 or 18" twist in 45 caliber. Several shooters opine that there is a slight advantage in some conditions using a 1-16" twist. What I didn't see was what evidence of the downside to using a 1-16 instead of an 18. Saw some theories on increased fouling or recoil. I was guessing overstabilization or maybe higher likelihood of bullet deformation with some alloys (no danger to jacket shedding for cast bullets obviously).

My thought is that if there was no negative to using a 1-16 twist than Shiloh would have made that the default twist rather than 1-18.

Some kind of a manufacturing/machine cycle time consideration? Thoughts?

Market Response: When Shiloh began in the late 70s the standard twist industry wide for the 45-70 was 1-20, Shooters began to experiment and started asking for tighter twists to maintain stabilization of longer bullets at extended ranges. Shiloh began offering a 1-18 twist as an option sometime in the late 80s I believe. Sometime in the 90s the orders for 18s exceeded the demand for the 20s, so Shiloh made that Standard. Silhouette was the driving force then, and the 18 twist works fine for those ranges, as bullets longer/heavier than required generate too much recoil over long strings in that game.

Experimentation continued, and Paper patching began to reappear. Along the way vintage style scopes came back, and a new weight limit came with them, 15 lbs. Gong match's and BPTR began exploring the thousand yard line, and there were no weight restriction there.

Heavier rifles and longer ranges brought a demand for still longer bullets and tighter twists. Improved casting techniques also showed there was no real down side to the tighter twist for shorter bullets used in other applications. Theorys also abound about faster spin improving ballistics in the Transsonic region, where most 45s spend there time past silhouette distances. So Shiloh began offering a 16" twist as the new option.

Should orders for the 16s exceed demand for the standard twist Shiloh may very well make it standard. But I don't think so. The vast majority of these rifles will not be shot at ranges needing that twist. The tighter twist probably needs a few more man-hours to manufacture, and that adds up on Shilohs side of the counter. Making the 16 an extra cost option works fine for we looneys that just know we need it!

Tighter twist is more money for the caster as well. Custom molds, precision melters, swaging kits, et al. This is critical on both ends of the weight spectrum for the bullets. A tighter twist makes the rifle more sensitive to voids/imperfections in any weight bullet. Someone who wants to shoot off the shelf ammunition and bullets probably does not want the 16 twist.