Swiss 1.5F and the 45 2.1"

[High Desert Hunter]

On a whim, I purchased 2# of Swiss 1.5F to try in the 45 2.1" Sharps, I have been shooting 67gr of 2F Old E with a fair amount of compression under a 520gr Brooks Creedmoor GG. Looking for suggestions as I think I have read a time or two that Swiss doesn't like much compression? Shooting Starline cases, and have .030" and .060" Walter's Veggie wads.

Dave

[Aviator]

Swiss powder seems to work fine with compression in my rifles.
You won't know unless you try it.

[RB1Shooter]

I have no problems with compressing Swiss but, I did find that drop tubing slowly gave me tighter groups. That said, I suggest 5 shot testing 62-63-64-65-66 grains 1 1/2 Swiss and narrow down from there.

Good shooting!

[High Desert Hunter]

Thank you for the guidance!

[steveu834]

I’m using 64.5 grains with a .060” wad and a 512 bullet in my trapdoor. The bullet is 1.35” long and the oal is 2.810”. I vibrate the charged cases. They shoot well for me.

[desert deuce]

I suspect there is more than one iteration of the Brooks Creedmoor. As in reduced diameter driving bands which allows one to seat the bullet further out and increase case volume and is beneficial in the 2.1 case. It is a competent bullet in the 2.4, have not tried it in the 2.1. The idea of ladder loads may take you where you need to go but 2 pounds of powder can disappear rather quickly Loading up to an increased capacity cases volume potential.

[High Desert Hunter]

DD, ain't that the truth! This mould was a gift from Bill Bagwell, and it does not have the reduced diameter driving bands. I will use the chronograph to assist with the work up, but ultimately the target will be the deciding vote. This is just an experiment, as I have a fairly decent supply of 2F Old Eynsford.

Dave

[desert deuce]

Do you have access to a 200 yard range for ladder load experiments?
If so, and you want me to, I can walk you through how I would do load development with that bullet in the 45-70 for midrange & silhouette.
If not, I will go back to loading ammo for the Desert International next month.

[High Desert Hunter]

I have access to miles of desert! What are the dates of your shoot?

[desert deuce]

Aha, haaa, Bill Bagwell knew his stuff. (Dates of shoot Match announcements above Desert International)
Start with an empty full length sized case, slightly bell the mouth and start the bullet base first into the case, seat about 1/3 way into case.
Gently close the belled case mouth on to body of bullet until case will chamber in rifle. (do not crimp)
Seat bullet incrementally deeper until only about .030'" of the lands engrave on the first driving band when chambered and action closed.
Measure for overall loaded length and write that measurement down.
Now, using a fireformed, primed case add powder until powder column holds bullet up to that measured cartridge overall length.
Weigh that volume of powder and write that weight down. This is the weight I start my ladder loads with and increase 1/2 grain for 10 shots.
Then I set a .030 Poly wad on the powder, then a .025 card and compress until the bullet seats to the measured cartridge overall length.
So, if first weight is 57.0 for shot #1, then 57.5, 58.0, 58.5, 59.0, 59.5, 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5. (more than 10 shots hard to differentiate hits.)
Then, ten more shots on different target beginning with 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5, 62.0, 62.5, 63.0, 63.5, 64.0, 64.5
If not satisfied start ten more, 63.5, 64.0, 64.5, 65.0, 65.5, 66.0, 66.5, 66.0, 66.5, 67.0

I will guess that somewhere around 61.0 to 63.0 you will see a cluster of 4 or more bullet holes, usually all within an inch of each other. Try the middle weight at a silhouette or midrange match. Or, load up 4 of each weight and shoot over chronograph, use the load with the smallest ES.

In my 45-70 the magic happened with a similar bullet at 61.5 grains and a Rem 2 1/2 primer.

[High Desert Hunter]

DD,
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up! I really appreciate it. I have yet to shoot this rifle anywhere but the local desert, and a weekend trip to the Whittington Center for a crack at the Buffalo, I did scratch that one off the bucket list. I pretty much shoot between 200 and 300 yards with my 67 grains of 2F Old Eynsford and a .060 veggie wad. Shooting in a silhouette competition is also on my bucket list. Thank you again!

Dave

[desert deuce]

Sounds like you could make cardboard cutouts of chickens and pigs and practice chickens at 200 M and pigs at 300 M where you presently shoot.
Can't help you with OE powder, did get started with it, but, when the accident and impending sale materialized, I just stayed with Goex & Swiss.
I have heard that some serious shooters use Schuetzen powder but have yet to see any definitive information posted about loading and match results by competitive shooters. For that reason, Schuetzen powder may be my next foray into load development with BPCR rifles.
Suggest that you get your load finalized and familiar with your rifle before venturing very far to a silhouette match.
Silhouette is 200M chickens, 300M pigs, 385M turkeys, 500M rams.

[High Desert Hunter]

Yep, closest two matches are 5 hours away, Tucson and the Whittington Center. I don't think I would ever be competitive, just something I wish to try, I won't have time to really hone skills until I am likely to be too old, at 57, time isn't on my side! I just want to enjoy the rifle it took 25 years of saving to get, and mostly I do that with my steel silhouette target out to 300. Being able to hit the Buffalo at Raton was a miracle, especially since my sight staff wasn't plumb, but 4 hits in 35 rounds fired still had me hootin' and holler'n, and as it usually is, it was a windy day! One thing about this forum, it has allowed me to really separate the wheat from the chaff when I am reading, and thanks to folks on here, my consistency has increased exponentially and I have in fact saved money and lead.

Dave

[gunlaker]

Dave, definitely don't hesitate to compress the Swiss. Work up a load from no compression and keep upping the powder charge and stop when the accuracy is best.

I'd also recommend trying 0.060" LDPE wads, and experimenting with fouling control as part of your load development. Since you live in a hot dry place, a change in fouling control can turn an excellent load into a real dog. The chronograph will help here. Pick your best load using Zack's technique, then experiment with fouling control to see how much better you can get the velocity consistency.

Zack you might want to hold off on the Schuetzen powder, unless you can't get Swiss at some point. I shot a couple of pounds of it through my .45-2.4" Borchardt. Accuracy at 200m was good enough for practice, but velocity was down 90-100 fps, and the variation was off the charts. Maybe with some work it could be OK at silhouette, but not worth the effort unless you can't get Swiss IMO.

Chris.

[desert deuce]

Thanks for the heads up on the Schuetzen.
I started with GOEX and with certain lots and Granulations did as well as I do with Swiss presently.
Did well with EXPRESS until it was discontinued.
I am concerned that the primer scarcity is politically motivated and that may spread to imported anything to do with shooting.
Much like the change in metal composition in wheel weights and the shutting down of Doe Run lead reclamation was obviously aimed at casters.
Before long we are going to be in the position of reclaiming the lead from the adulterated WW of today.
Better stock up on Tin.