NRA

[bobw]

Well said Cody. Maybe no one else needs to add to that just about perfectly expressed. I will make a parallel point. The Quigley match has run for over 30 years very successfully. The Forsyth Rifle and Pistol Club runs it and over the years that club has made some nice monetary donations to various entities including youth programs etc. And the NRA. But they have never let the NRA get its ugly camel nose under the tent flap and that is just ONE of the reasons it's been going on over 30 years successfully....bobw

[Don McDowell]

Here a while back I got an envelope from NRA. inside were 2 new classification cards. Being curious I went to the portal and looked up competitor activity. Sure enough those came from the 2018 nationals. Being further curious I went looking thru the national records, and while Chips 200 yard target from 2018 isn't there, there are some new records posted as recently as 2019..
BPTR is a tuff one, the ranges suitable to hold a true national match are few and far between and the ranges that have the capability that haven't been over run with high-power matches cuts that number even smaller. So that is going to make the formation of some sort of governing body a very hard row to hoe.

It is my sincere hope that the sillhouette shooters show up in mass to the nationals.
Well done Tappan Hill.

[semtav]

Remember the old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

This not only applies to dealing with the NRA, but also starting a new "BPTR Federation"

Get a map out and put a pretty colored thumbtack everywhere there is a "legal" 800, 900, 1000 BPTR Range.

Now how can you generate enough interest in something you can only participate in a couple times a year because of the distance and cost, little own practice on one.

Then factor in the "my way or the highway' mentality of most of the older shooters ( that includes me) and its easy to see why younger people don't want to participate. Its all to evident right here where we can't even get half a dozen people to show up for a long range match most of the time for that very reason.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Remember the old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

This not only applies to dealing with the NRA, but also starting a new "BPTR Federation"

Get a map out and put a pretty colored thumbtack everywhere there is a "legal" 800, 900, 1000 BPTR Range.

Now how can you generate enough interest in something you can only participate in a couple times a year because of the distance and cost, little own practice on one.

Then factor in the "my way or the highway' mentality of most of the older shooters ( that includes me) and its easy to see why younger people don't want to participate. Its all to evident right here where we can't even get half a dozen people to show up for a long range match most of the time for that very reason.

Brian you bring up some good points, distance and cost. It’s very hard for me to convince myself to drive even to a long range gong match for one day. There has to be more bang for my buck. Alliance has 3 days of such. And the long range event allowed prone and recently the use of bench. More bang for your buck plus a 22 match.

My own Creedmoor match, now has a 22 day plus, lots of practice time. A real traditional Creedmoor match at 800-900-1000 yards. Then a bonus day, the first real Mile match. Our only drawback is amenities are not real close by. But dry camping is greatly encouraged and we have very fun evenings. Information is spread like jam on toast. The match Director spends time with the shooters even spotting for many of them and teaching about precession and giving come ups to each target and impromptu spotting lessons. I honestly believe I am the only match director and landowner that does that.

I returned to the quigley for the very first time as a shooter since 2007. I had an absolute blast, my friends Brian H, Ed and Beth, Jimbo, made it specially so. Seeing Tony and Lester, plus Jon made it even more. The practice days were incredibly fun, only one fly in the ointment was a brief altercation with someone that wanted an open confrontation. I exercised considerable restraint and prevented myself from giving into my temper. Otherwise it was a lot of fun. I plan on shooting again this year with Better suited sticks for this match, thanks to Doug Fleming.

I think some sort of umbrella is a good thing or we will divided fall.

Unfortunately the 1000 yard match you guys host falls during the 22 national championship at Raton. Someday I want to shoot it, just not feasible at this time.

Kenny Wasserburger

[jackrabbit]

Remember the old saying "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

This not only applies to dealing with the NRA, but also starting a new "BPTR Federation"

Get a map out and put a pretty colored thumbtack everywhere there is a "legal" 800, 900, 1000 BPTR Range.

Now how can you generate enough interest in something you can only participate in a couple times a year because of the distance and cost, little own practice on one.

Then factor in the "my way or the highway' mentality of most of the older shooters ( that includes me) and its easy to see why younger people don't want to participate. Its all to evident right here where we can't even get half a dozen people to show up for a long range match most of the time for that very reason.

I hear you and see your points. I don't think a bptr only group would likely work. However a black powder cartridge group that would encourage and support target rifle, silhouette, gongs or whatever other competition could very well stand on it's own. It would require the different sub groups of BPCR supporting each other. That might be the impossible part.

[Don McDowell]

An all inclusive bpcr group may very well be a good idea.
Someplace with a shooting driven board, selected from the membership after initial establishment.
A place to establish basic guidelines, classifications etc, and a central clearing house for match info scores etc.

[mike herth]

Have any of you BP guys had any discussions with the "powers that be" in WY about that "world class" shooting facility that's being talked about? I'm sure it's down the road aways if it even happens, but getting in discussions with the planners early on could be fruitful one way or the other relative to a BP facility separate from the long range high power folks. Who knows what could happen!

[Don McDowell]

I’m not real sure they have competitors from any discipline involved in the planning stages

[desert deuce]

Don't get too impressed Kenny, SEMTAV likely 'borrowed' those great ideas. Nevertheless, good thing he tossed them up on the wall.
The Crusade to resurrect the Byers Matches, for the moment, seems to be a most important effort going. One thing at a time?

One of those 'borrowed' ideas should identify just exactly how many "suitable" ranges are there in the United States and Canada to hold long range matches on that are being actively used, and how many exist that are not presently being used?

The word suitable means, firing points at 800, 900 & 1000 yards, a backstop behind the targets, safe pits, (preferably faces basically north)

In use: Phoenix, Missoula, Byers (assuming it will be active again soon), Lodi, (Connegut) Canada? (am I missing any?) 5?

Not in use: Raton, Sacramento, Capitan (am I missing any) (Military Bases do not count)

The subject of holding a long range match, even a nationals, at Raton comes up frequently. So far, all inquirers were looking for someone else to do it.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Have any of you BP guys had any discussions with the "powers that be" in WY about that "world class" shooting facility that's being talked about? I'm sure it's down the road aways if it even happens, but getting in discussions with the planners early on could be fruitful one way or the other relative to a BP facility separate from the long range high power folks. Who knows what could happen!

That’s not going logically happen, a Creedmoor range is exactly the same thing as a Highpower range, there is no logic in building two separate ranges that are exactly the same. The thing is for the individuals involved for both Highpower and BPTR to work together to maintain the range, to be successful.

It is still strictly in the development phase, a suitable site has yet to be Chosen. As far as I can determine there are absolutely no shooters involved in the planing stage as of yet. And yes 1 BP guy has been spoken with.

It’s difficult to explain to folks that have never shot on paper from 200 to 1000 yards and pulled targets. In the 80s I did a lot of Highpower shooting even went to camp Perry as a member of the Wyoming state service rifle team in 92-93. I was invited back in 94 but a Sharps showed up. In 1996 I ventured to Raton and shot paper midrange match. We also shot a 800 yard test run match. In 1997 I returned with my partner Jimbo Terry, we shot the first Creedmoor paper match in over 100 years. The pair of us finished in the top 5 at 1000 yards. The rest is history.

Kenny Wasserburger

[40-65rl]

High power and BPTR sharing a range is exactly what we do in Cheyenne, The High power guy is the range officer and in charge of maintenance of the range because they were shooting on the range many years before the BPTR shooters came along along about 6-7 years ago. Never is a problem because we talk to each other about our programs and needs. We coordinate our shooting dates and both work on maintenance when target frames need work or anything else that needs to be done. They get a budget from the Board of Directors based on our projected needs and if it's something special, out of the ordinary comes along, the board decides on the funding. Perhaps this coordination between all involved with the range is the reason the berms, pits and target frames are so well maintained. Amazing!

[Aviator]

#6?? Gopher Rifle and Revolver Club at Harris MN has some long range black powder matches.

[desert deuce]

Does Harris, MN, range have a backstop.

Just got word: For all intents, Connaught range outside Ottawa is finished with Black powder due to going to electronic targets.

[DeadEye]

Google it 'North Star Range' in Nokomis, SK. It's a small range, six targets, meets all the requirements out to 1200 yards. I'm told it was built for the Pan-Am games some years back. I have been an associate member off and on for a few years. Trouble is they too have gone to electronic targets. I shot an F-Class match there in September '22. The technology is amazing. Is there a way to adapt it to Black Powder? I understand it is a velocity problem. Is any work being done to solve that? Is the reluctance to allow us to shoot on these ranges due to the fact we can't all keep our shots inside a six foot square target? Just asking. How did I do at the F-Class? Turns out I took an 800 yard load and gun to a 1000 yard match. Not so good.

Paul

[Don McDowell]

Paul there has been one of the outfits in Europe that has a system that works with our velocity, but it is very expensive.
It's not that the weenie bore high power shooters don't shoot the uprights, but their ittybitty bullets won't break an upright in two if it hits a knot like the big ol 40 cal plus bullets do.
Reading one of the companies info the target comes with cable splice kits and replacement sensors... Sorta tells you something.
Big problem is it is somewhat hard to justify closing up a heavy used range for 20-50 shooters for any length of time when they know a high-power match with 300+ slots available will sell out in less than 15 minutes when the online registrations open.