43 spanish

stevenjay1 · Post by **stevenjay1** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:25 pm

David, I stand corrected, I saw that Buffalo Arms still has the .43 Spanish basic brass. Steve

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:32 pm

Steve-

Here are the picts...also photos of an 1871 SA RRB in 50-70.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... id=3981931

Also, sorry if the last post sounded like I was trying to correct something. I was trying to get the proceedure down and clear in my mind, mainly, to decide what dies I need to purchase.

You're right. Looks like Buffalo Arms has the bell brass in the basic and in the premade 43 spanish.

Again thanks for your help.

David

stevenjay1 · Post by **stevenjay1** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:18 am

David, that is a nice looking Model 1879 Argentine Rolling Block. I believe you will find that it will shoot very well. I currently have two M-1879's and they both are fun to take to the range. One is like new and the other rather pitted with a bore of 6 or 7 on a scale of ten but it still will keep about a 4 to 5 inch group at 100 yards. However, I have to clean it every couple of shots. Still fun! Steve

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:19 pm

Steve-

Question. It appears that the trim/forming die (RCBS) is going to take a while to get (special order). If I were to get a few of the pre-formed 43 spanish cases, which appear to be, on an average, about .25" short, set the bullet out a bit and fire, would I get enough streach in a couple of loading to to make them work until the die arrives?

You make note on your signature line that you are from Texas. What part? I have lived several years in Odessa, Andrews and Brownsville. Really hated it when we left Andrews. We still go down to Brownsville every two or three years and vist family.

Thanks again.

stevenjay1 · Post by **stevenjay1** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:27 pm

David, I doubt that the cases will stretch .25 inch and in fact they may not stretch at all. The pressure generated by the .43 Spanish isn't great enough to stretch the brass very much if at all. Others may have a different opinion about this but based on my observation I see very little brass stretching. Come to think about it, since I minimally resize my brass and with some rounds I only neck size may be a contributing factor to the lack of brass movement. In any case I've never seen or heard of brass stretching .25" without the case failing. I'll make you an offer....If you want to order five or ten basic cases from Buffalo arms and send them to me I'll size and trim them to 2 9/16" for you and send them back. That way you can start to play with the RRB while you’re waiting for the dies. Let me know.

Ah Yes, Texas. I spent my formative years growing up in Pasadena Texas who's only claim to fame was "Gilley's/John Travolta/Urban Cowboy". I'm sure I catch a little grief for that comment but all in all, I do miss East Texas! In the 50's and 60's it was a great place to grow up.

boge · Post by **boge** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:02 pm

He's right. I shoot a 44-77 & accidentally trimmed

a few too short and they have not stretched one iota after 7-8 shots.

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:09 am

Steve & Boge-

Thanks for the information. I was afraid of that. When I first started trimming my 50-90's (before this I had always used a lee trimmer) I "over trimmed" 3 of the cases by several 1000th. Thought, oh well, I'll mark'em, watch'em and they will stretch. They have been loaded 5 times...no stretch yet (Bell cases)!

Steve, I may take you up on that. I'll pm you about it if that's ok?

Thanks again guys for your help. I picked up a 50-70 RRB a bit before this one, but I'm really looking forward to playing with 43.

stevenjay1 · Post by **stevenjay1** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:27 pm

David, No Problem, just let me know. Steve

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:09 am

About how much of the Cerrosafe (weight) will I need for this cast?

I have purchased a pound.

Thanks

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:26 am

That's more than enough. Just be sure & folow the directions.

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:29 pm

Ken-

Good. I'll melt the entire bar.

It came with some directions. However, I like the details you gave me.

I suspect this may be one of the variations mentioned in Croft Baker's book you and Ken suggested (bought it and a couple others of his).

He talks about 4 different variations of the 43 spanish. He describes these by metic shell size and bore diameter. My bore comes out at .442-.443. That he indicates, I believe, as a 11x57R instead of 58R. In any case glad you all suggested the chamber cast.

I have really been champing to buy cases, but have held off. Looks like it was a good idea (maybe that's why you all suggested it?)!

Any way, thanks again.

Don Kenna · Post by **Don Kenna** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:01 pm

I’ll throw in my experiences on this topic. I’ve owned a .43 Spanish Argentine contract Remington “rolling block” for quite a few years. It has the original, if badly worn, tin-plated finish. The bore isn’t perfect, but is still quite good. Mechanically, the rifle is in excellent condition. It does, by the way, have quite a long chamber throat.

I originally had terrible problems with case separations, losing most of the Bertram brass I used on the second firing, at best. A chamber cast sent to RCBS revealed that their sizing and case forming dies weren’t of the proper dimensions, and they replaced my dies with custom made dies for free. That solved the case separation problem.

Bertram brass was also too thick in the neck and required reaming before loaded rounds would chamber. Once that task was completed, I had no further problems with Bertram brass. I ordered some BELL brass from Buffalo Arms, and these didn’t have to be reamed.

I’ll agree with “ssdave” insofar as this is definitely not the rifle with which you’d want to start black powder cartridge shooting. For one thing, it taught me well that bottle-neck black powder cartridge cases are an invention of the devil—case stretching, fouling, powder compression problems. The rifle’s battle sight will likely preclude winning any matches, even against Springfield “Trapdoors” with their more sophisticated windage adjustable sights. The stock dimensions don’t handle recoil very well, and the trigger pull, while very crisp, has to be all of ten pounds. The latter may be a good thing for an infantryman in the stress of battle, but doesn’t help precision shooting. Finally, I wound up paying about twice the amount for .43 Spanish loading tools that I paid for the rifle and bayonet.

On the other hand, I’ve found the Argentine contract Remington a very interesting, rugged, and reliable rifle. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for hunting anything that walks on this continent at usual black powder cartridge rifle ranges—i.e., out to 200 yards or so. Once one figures out the proper “Kentucky windage” to use with the battle sight, it’s capable of very good accuracy. In consistent wind conditions, I’ve been able to hit 500-meter silhouette rams regularly during informal shooting.

While these rifles are quite common and inexpensive, the supply is finite and I would never condone stripping one in good condition for its action. There are still many “rolling blocks” in poor condition with usable actions out there if one would want to build up such a rifle for a more common chambering. Those military “rollers” in good condition should be appreciated for what they were—to include shooting them.

For what it’s worth, the following load worked very well for me:

RCBS 394-grain bullet, .442-inch diameter, 1-20 alloy
Walters .060-inch wad
80 grains GOEX Cartridge powder (compressed)
Federal 215 primer

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:42 am

Don-

Thanks for your comments.

You mentioned that you use a RCBS bullet (RCBS 394-grain bullet, .442-inch diameter, 1-20 alloy ). Do you know what the RCBS mould number is?

My bore slugged @ .443 instead of the .439/.440. Would like to take a look on the RCBS site for that mould.

Thanks again,

David

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:09 am

I did my chamber cast Sunday. As Ray suggested, used a can bent in all the right places. Double boiler. Needle nose vicegrips for a handle. Modelling clay in all the right places (great idea). Hair dryer for heating the barrel-chamber. It poured great. Everything went really smooth....but.....you know, when you ask for advise, follow it ALL!

I was looking at the open chamber and decided that there was plent of room to make the pour, so, skipped pulling the block and hammer! While waiting for sufficient cooling time to pass, I was studying the cast, the extractor, the hammer.....how is that big long cast going to clear the extractor and clear the hammer. Then I remembered....pull the block and the hammer!

Ray, lesson WELL learned. It was a pain getting everything out. I think your last comment was "be sure and follow the directions!"

My brass should be here today or tomorrow (Buffalo Arms reformed 348).
However, I had a question. Does anyone know off hand about how thick the brass is at the neck?

Again, thanks to all!

stevenjay1 · Post by **stevenjay1** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:58 pm

Well David, What were the dimensions of the cast? BTW, the neck thicknesses on my cases that are 2.25 inches are .008" and the 2 9/16 inch case are.006”.

Steve