Cast Bullets with Smokeless Powder?

[Alvin]

gus65, thanks for the imput. I did fire 6 rounds with black powder,trying to see what the rifle likes, was hoping by going smokeless i could get by without swabing & blowtubeing, can be a pain in freezing weather, and I thought cleanup would not be as envolved. It is neet hearing the bullet smack the RR ties behind the target, never heard that sound before, and the rifle has a unique sound all it's own. I may stay with black just to be on the safe side, waited too long for this rifle to damage it in any way.

[Shadow 4]

Shadow, I really don't have a clue on how fast he was pushing it. My guess, and that's all it is, was in excess of 1800fps. When I was playing around with it I was trying to duplicate BP velocities in the1200-1300 fps range but was still getting some leading even with this. In retrospect I would have probably done better with a lube designed for smokeless powder. As mentioned some people here have done well shooting smokeless and cast bullets. I mentioned my experience with it so the initial poster would be vigilant on the leading possibilities. If I HAD to shoot smokeless I would use a gas checked bullet. Several years ago I went up with Tony to paint the targets at the Q during a practice day and I couldn't believe the number of gas checks around the targets, particularly the offhand target.Not only does Al Lee have a lead mine going in Forsyth but a copper mine too.
Keith Lay

It had to be damn fast.
I always used blue lube when I got bullets from Dave at Mt Bullet works, never had a lead problem, also now use SPG, leaded one time, still don't know why, haven't had a problem in my 45-70 since then.

As much as gets sent, that copper should start glittering in the sun sometime soon.

[mdeland]

Your leading might have been temperature related. I use the LBT soft blue on my .357 Max bullets at about 1600 fps and they lead up in cold weather. I going to try my Mathew's BPCR lube next match. MD

[Shadow 4]

Your leading might have been temperature related. I use the LBT soft blue on my .357 Max bullets at about 1600 fps and they lead up in cold weather. I going to try my Mathew's BPCR lube next match. MD

MD,

That's also the only thing I could come up with.

[mdeland]

Alvin, you can always put a couple of grains of Reloader #7 in on top of your black powder loads and you can shoot all day long without blow tubing or wiping. It's called duplex loading. I use it all winter long and have for many years in my 45-70. Only takes 3 to 5 grains to make black powder shoot clean enough not to have to wipe or blow tube. They should be fully loaded with Black and a few grains of Reloader on top the black so the powders don't move around and mix. I have shot it under the black as well but tried it on top last match and it worked just as well and perhaps a bit better. You won't need any type of filler paper or wadding to take up space in the case,just the one under the bullet .
Never load more than 10 percent smokeless in a duplex load and always use powders that are proven safe. Reloader 7 is one of the best. MD

[Alvin]

MD, thanks a bunch, I'll give it a try, but that poses a question, do I need to compress the powder & crimp, or will finger seating be ok? I was thinking of not crimping a few rounds and see what that would do for my group.I am useing a postal 535 gr bullet & 76 gr of swiss 2f gives a perfect fit when chamberd .AL

[Alvin]

Glenn, you made a post about moulds, before buying you might want to talk to Moose Moulds, they are on the 1863 thread, price is fair, quality in my opion is great, bought one for my '63 and have no complaints, and I am a horriable caster, better now that I have a eletric melting furnance, but finding a cheap source for tin is a problem. You might want to buy some already made bullets to see what style you like, or look whats been winning matches, just a thought from a newbie. AL

[Glennster]

Alvin,
I'll take a look at the Mouse Molds. I just ordered some 535 Money bullets from John Olsen, I'll test drive those and see what happens. I have a 475 grain mold with a gas check, I'll try some of those too.
My scope arrived Saturday, I hope the rifle will arrive Friday. By the time I get the scope on the rifle I should have bullets built, time to head to the range.
Thanks to everybody for schooling the new guy!

[battleship gunner]

Hey guys,
Instead of complaining about white or black remember what Dr. Martin Luther King said about judging on color instead of character and we have some REAL characters on this site. I shoot white in both of mine and do just fine, the accuracy is scary even with a 3 1/4" case. We should encourage people to get and use these fine rifles anyway they'd like. If someone asks what my powder,bullet,primer loads are I'll share the info. Just my 2 cents worth.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[mdeland]

Alvin, I would start by reducing my black powder by three grains for every grain of Reloader #7 used . If you use three grains of Reloader 7 than reduce the black by 9 grain or so for a start and see how your accuracy is and how clean it shoots.
I have shot it with both taper crimp and finger seating successfully. I finger seat now for all my match shooting but for hunting I would taper crimp. I do like enough black powder to keep the powder column of black and smokeless from mixing but you also want to avoid air space in the case. Don't use filler, your better off filling up any unused space with black powder. Three grains of Reloader 7 won't take up much space. All your after is just enough smokeless to shoot clean and still be accurate.
Check your case extraction and keep a close eye on any sign of pressure . Some have reported sticky extraction when duplexing but I never have in my 45-70 even when I have used 60 grains of black and 6 of Reloader 7.
Some folks don't like to duplex but I do and have used it for 14 years. Let your gun tell you what it likes and always start on the conservative side and work up to where you are satisfied or not with the results to determine if duplexing is for you.
It has been used successfully since the advent of smokeless powder and is nothing new. MD

[Don McDowell]

.
It has been used successfully since the advent of smokeless powder and is nothing new. MD

Well you're partially right, the original reason for duplexing, when they put the small charge of blackpowder in the case and then the smokeless was to use the blackpowder as a kicker to help ignite the smokeless powder. The primers available at the time would not reliably ignite the smokeless powders, but the little charge of black would... How and when exactly it got all turned around I can't say, but I really fail to see the need for duplexing in this day and age.
Either shoot black or shoot smokeless it's just that simple...

[Woody]

I have not duplexed for a number of years. In my early days of NRA Black Powder Target Rifle, duplexing was allowed in the rules and at the Nationals. In my first Creedmoor at Raton, I duplexed. Since then, duplexing has not been allowed at the Nationals. I quit duplexing and have never looked back. I used SR 4759 and placed it in the case first. Then a newsprint wad to keep it from mixing and then the black. Very low SD's and about a 50 FPS jump in velocity with a clean bore. As I stated, I don't feel the need to duplex any more.

Woody

[Don McDowell]

And with todays Blackhorn 209 you can have the ?best? of both worlds Same price per round as Swiss,pressure and velocity of smokeless,blue smoke and supposedly no fouling, but you do need to clean the bore very well, and it will grow white crap over the flashholes after you deprime and wash the cases.

[Alvin]

MD,Woody, great info, I like a flat learning curve, Frank, you said if anyone was interested just ask, well, I'm asking, What is your secret ? Sometimes the good part of being new to somthing is all the info that is learned in the exploration. I have an open mind and don,t mind walking on either side of powder fence. AL

[monkeyboy]

I've had some pretty good results with a duplexed smokeless load[GASP!].WC872 or WC867 with a small kicker charge of RL-7. Fills the case completely with BP range velocities and pressures.The best part is this stuff runs about 6$ a lb shipped if you buy a case. FWIW---Mike.