Cast Bullets with Smokeless Powder?

[battleship gunner]

Al,
I'll tell you what my loads are. Be advised they are heavy and the recoil is stout, more about that at the end.
I have used 6-8 different powders and have narrowed it down to 5. I shoot a .45-100 ( 2 6/10 ) Shiloh. I've had good results with 4198, 3031, 4895, 5744 and 4759. My go to load is 42 grs. of 4198 with a 1/2 sheet of single ply toilet paper to keep the powder sort of in place, no need to push it all the way down on the powder, you can go without it but my accuracy is better with it. My bullet is from a Paul Jones Creedmoor mould @535 grs. and I use CCI BR-2 primers, Mag. primers are OK too but not needed. The velosity is 1,725fps. Yeah I know that way to fast but with a hard cast bullet does just fine and no leading. The rifle is a #1 with a 30" barrel and I've shot many thousands of rounds that way and me and the rifle are still in fine shape. At 100 yds. I can usually put 10 shots in about a 2" round hole as I did yesterday. At 1,000 yards I'm pretty good and I use a 4" tang sight not a 6". The sight is good out to 1,250 yds. with this load. The other powders are OK to but 4198 works best for me. 3031 I've used 48-49 grs. Mag. primers, 4895 48grs. I can't remember the other 2 I'd have to check my log book.
My other load is for a C. Sharps .50-140 ( 3 1/4" ) 32" barrel. I use 42 grs. of 5744 with mag. primers (WLRM),a 640 gr. Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet no TP just powder the velosity is 1,425 fps. and at 100 yds. I put 10 shots inside a 2" hole again at 1,000 yds it's better than the .45. I tried 4198 but was not to happy with the accuracy on the .50.
I know I'll be called al kinds name, i.e. crazy,dangerous nuts etc. but this is what I use and they work fine for me and have for going on 25 yrs.
Now the recoil issue, I had to invent a pad to address this and I'll be sending a sample to Lucinda for review next month then maybe this will be something you may want to try.
OK everyone is welcome to hurl grief my way I deserve it .

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[battleship gunner]

P.S.
Start below these loads and work up from there. I went well above these loads and came back down not because they hurt ( which they did ) but because the accuracy was better.


Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[Alvin]

Frank, thanks for the instruction, I am amased needed TP in 45 and not in the 50, I don't know the weight of your rifle but mine only weighs 10.5 lbs on bathroom scales, any of those would be a shoulder cruncher, it does not look period corect but, I bought a slipon limbsaver kick pad and plan on covering with some leather,before my next shoot, feels odd on the shallow cresent style butt plate.but I learned 1st time out recoial pad is needed for my old bones. Even 80 gr swiss talks to me. Al

[battleship gunner]

Al,
The reason the .50 doesn't use TP is because when accurate arms was developing the powder they did it with the 3 1/4" cases in mind. That's why it's not position sensitive. My Shiloh weighs about 12+ lbs. If at anytime you need info on the devils' powder I'm here but you can't go wrong with BP.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[Alvin]

Frank thanks, I loaded up30 rounds today, difrent combinations, swiss and smokless, going to have some fun . It may take me awhile but is a fun trip .I need the trigger time anyway . AL

[MLV]

Accurate Arms didn't "develop" 5744. It started as a surplus powder left over from 5.56mm development in the early '60s. I believe Hercules was the orignal "developer."

MLV or whatever.

[Sgt Major]

This is all great information. I just bought my retirement present a Shiloh 50-140. Have wanted one for 30 years. Now need some info on smokeless powder and cast bullet loads for this rifle. Does anybody have a pet load or two I can start from. Want to hunt whitetails here in KS this fall and with it and plan on taking it to Africa in 2015. Please help. This is new to me so lots of reading here lately. The wife and kids invested a lot of money for me to have this rifle and I plan on shooting her every chance I get.

[bobw]

Sgt Major ,You need to establish if your chamber has freebore or not first. Fg black powder is the way to go period. bobw

[Sgt Major]

how do I establish free bore or not.

[mdeland]

Chamber cast is the only reliable way so see how much freebore, if any, one has. It will be a cylinder shape usually of groove diameter just ahead of the case mouth and then taper into the lands. MD

[mdeland]

Another way is to seat a groove diameter bullet backwards in the case that has a bit of sizing in the neck to provide some bullet tension. Now seat the cartridge in the chamber and close the breech. This will seat the bullet the length of any freebore existent . Remove the measuring cartridge by pushing a cleaning rod down from the muzzle. This will keep the overall length from being disturbed so it can be measured. MD

[battleship gunner]

Sgt.Major,
Can't advise you on smokeless .50-140 loads because I don't know if your rifle is like mine - C.Sharps model 74- or an older Shiloh when they were in N.Y. Mine is really happy with the load I stated above. I started with 5744 and within 4 trips to the range I had my load. Next I tried 4198 but the accuracy wasn't as good so 5744 is all I use now and it's great.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[battleship gunner]

Sgt. Major,
Went back and checked my notes when I was buying my .50-140. I E-mailed accurate arms about which powder to use and their ballistic guy got back to me with 3 different powders that WORK. They are AA5744 (41-51 grs.) don't go up to 51, I did and it's not fun or accurate, AA2015 (61-68 grs.), and AA4350 (87-97 grs.).I didn't go any farther than the 5744 because it uses less powder and once I got 10 rounds inside of 2" @ 100yds. there was no need to try anything else. They were the ones who told me that when THEY were developing the powder they kept the .50-140 in mind. Check out their web site. For me it's Mag. primer (WLRM), 42 grs. 5744 and 640 gr. Paul Jones Creedmoor hard cast bullet and done no mess, no fuss just pure fun.

Frank.

My long distance provider is Sharps.

[MLV]

Battleship Gunner: The founder of AAC told me personally where he got the original batch of 5744 and what it had been developed for. He sent me an eight pound milk jug of it in 1981. If he indeed told me Hercules made it then he was probably wrong or my memory is flawed after 32 years. I say that because in the book THE GUN by C.J. Chivers on page 293 he states that early AR15 ammunition had been loaded with a powder known as IMR4475 but that in late 1963 the army allowed a ball powder named WC846 to be substituted. The ball powder raised velocity and lowered chamber pressure but burned dirty and was one reason M16s got a bad rep in early Vietnam combat for unreliability.

Note that 5744 is 4475 reversed. IMR would designate that the powder was a DuPont product and not Hercules.

After the surplus stuff was gone they turned offshore for new manufacture. It has been made in Israel and the Czech Republic. The one pound size can I keep under my bench says the latter. It has also been named MP5744 and XMR5744. When I feel like braving the wind and snow I'll check my eight pound jug out in my storage shed and see where it was made.

I don't know where it is made now but it is my all-time favorite for cast bullet loads in bottleneck rifle cases and for lever gun rounds that were originally meant for black powder.

MLV

[battleship gunner]

Mike,
When I get home tonight I'll see where the container I have was made also. All I know is that it works really well for me.

Frank

My long distance provider is Sharps.