Swiss Powder

[45bpcr]

This is interesting.
I received some of the new Swiss powder today.
It truly is a "ball" powder.
Granule size is between .042 and .048 from the ones I measured.
I filled up my old Lyman 55 that was set to drop 70 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss and with this powder it dropped 72.2 after it settled down.
It then proceeded to throw 72.2 for 18 out of 20 throws with the other 2 weighing 72.1 so it apparently meters very well.
I know I've made mention of not regularly using a chronograph, but as I just cracked my last lb. of the last lot of 1 1/2, I will spend a bit of time at the bench when we're down in Ridgway recording velocity for the loads I have.
Also, all my 40-65 brass is now loaded so I won't be able to test the two back to back.
Sorry for the lousy pics I was using the camera we use here at the shop when taking pics of customers broken cars and it gets hammered on a bit.

Craig

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[MLV]

I have some on the way. Hope to work up a load in time to use it at Raton.
MLV

[45bpcr]

I found 15 cases here at the shop, 7 brand new ones and 8 once fired.
By volume the stack height in the cases is much higher, weight is 2.2 grains more.

Craig
wlmailhtml:{F805A5BF-DB25-47CB-8BF6-65392881A574}mid://00000277/!cid:E5546D6194434E7291AD6D18D207102A@CraigsPC

[45bpcr]

Let's try again with a pic.
The cases on the right are charged by volume at 72 grains
The ones on the left have 65.5 grains and resulted in little to no compression.
I need to get home and load the truck

Craig

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[Lumpy Grits]

A PM 'measures' by volume. How can it have a higher 'stack' in the same make/lot of cases then
Gary

[45bpcr]

I'm not sure Gary.
I was rushing to get out of here for the shoot last month and just took my measure that was set for a load with the conventional powder and started throwing charges and drop tubing them into some cases I found here at the shop.
The cases may have been neck sized, or of a heavier weight or something. I put them in a bag for some reason.

Now that I've had a bit of time to actually shoot it I'll pass on what I've learned so far which is slim.
I've only used it in a Browning 40-65 and only with one bullet, the BACO 406400M4. I do have a load that shows promise, 68.5 grains. That charge weight gets compressed .150 with a .060 poly wad. The bullet is slightly engraved.
Last week I loaded 15 each cases each from 58 to 68.5 grains and shot paper at 300 yards. 58 grains was little to no compression, and shot like crap.
The 68.5 grain load put 15 shots into a 5 inch group at 300 yds.
This was with fire formed brass and no re-sizing.

Here's a couple of pics of what the powder looks like after being compressed .150

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It was pretty solid and I had to dig it out with a pick, but surprisingly, there was very little dust and most of the "balls" were intact. I know they are crappy pics but it's what I've got.

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Last week I formed 200 new cases from Winchester brass and spent Sunday on the deck in the sun sorting those cases into 1 grain increments,de-burred flash holes, measured case wall thickness and all the rest. I ended up with 178 cases that were all within 3 grains of each other. (to bad Lapua won't make 45-70 brass)
This week I loaded 100 of them starting at that 68.5 charge weight and went up to 72.5 one grain at a time.
50 rounds with bullets cast 16-1, and 50 rounds with bullets cast 20-1.
Perhaps Sunday I'll shoot them at 300 or 500 yards.

I'll keep you all updated if your interested.

Craig

[Lumpy Grits]

YES-I am interested
Your pics ain't bad at all-
I know when I compress my Goex 3F .375-.400 it becomes a solid stick.
The target sez-Don't change what I'm do'n.
Gary

[John Boy]

Craig, thanks for the posts! Very informative on the new Swiss that no has seen on the forums.
Noticed 1 1/2Fg C with a birth date of 2(?) April, 2014. I heard the new ball powder was available last year
With the balls, a light compression will be nice. Sure is a dense powder too

[Woody]

I've got a couple of lbs of 1.5 to do a little testing, but that will have to wait til I return from Raton in a couple of weeks.

Woody

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

I think I am going to let y'all do the load development for me, read your results, them try it. Til then we ain't gonna fix what ain't broke!

Best, Barvid

[45bpcr]

Barvid,

If your shooting a 40-65 Browning or a 38-55 C-Sharps with a 12 twist barrel, I may just ship you a few pounds and let you have at it!

I made it to the range last Sunday and conditions were just about perfect. Good sun, little to no wind.
I fooled with bullet alloy and neck tension.

This load was 68.5 grains with once fired brass. Info is on the target. it was 16-1 alloy. Not good.

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This load was the same but using 20-1 alloy, pretty much the same, not good.

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This last load was new brass, resized and prepped except for trimming from new Winchester brass. Results were pretty much the same, perhaps a bit tighter.

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I then moved out to 500 and fired a 90 round group at a 600 yard repair center. Nearly all were in the black but the black is not minute of Ram.

It's different powder that's for sure.
For instance, today I was loading for Ridgway this weekend ( score expectations are not high ) and my 55 powder measure with the brass hopper was full and ready to charge cases. Today was a bit on the hot and muggy side here in NH. Around 4 PM a lady called about her Mercedes and I got distracted for a while dealing with her. At a little past 5 I didn't want to screw with ammo any more so I dumped the contents of the measure into a funnel to pour back into the bottle. From just sitting for a little more than an hour some of the powder had clumped into golf ball sized clumps.
Another thing is that powder spilled in the loading tray will stain the bases of the case quickly.
I'm about done for the night and need to head home.
I'll try to keep you all in the loop.

Craig

[Woody]

Thanks for the update. I won't be able to play with it until I get back from Raton. I did notice it was a dull black, as if it was not coated with graphite like the cracked Swiss. If all else fails, the shotgun don't care what kind of black I feed it. They are calling it Swiss "Caviar" at the NMLRA HQ. The few times I've had caviar, I didn't find it worth the expense.

Woody

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Craig, thanks for the offer, but we will have to see about it........

I don't know the definition of "sporting powder" but I sure do like the way the glazed 1.5 shoots in my rifles.40's or 45's......

Best, Barvid

[MLV]

Me too, I don't know why they thought they needed something new. I have some on hand but no startling results yet.
MLV

[Kitsap]

I would like to bring this thread back to life.

Have any of the early users of the Caviar powder continued with their testing?

I loaded 50 rounds in 40-65 and shot them out of a Browning BPCR rifle. Used the same bullet, brass, and primer as a proven load. The results were mixed at best.

DougF