New/Old Time Hunting Loads for 45/70 Aka 45/85

tom ball · Post by **tom ball** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:10 pm

Is the old Govt. cartridge starting to bore you? Try some of the following loads and I think the relationship will warm back up. I have a Shiloh Sharps 45 2.1inch case with a 26 inch barrel, that I ordered back in 1987. I think it only took about 4 or 5 months to get it back then. I have shot coyote, badger,white-tailed jack rabbits mule deer, pronghorn and elk with this rifle. At first I used a 405 grain grease groove flat point bullet with about 65 grains of GOEX FFG powder and it did o.k. All of the big game animals hit with it would would hump up and just bleed out and unceremoniously tip over. Then I started trying to duplicate the old paper patch loads of the 1870's buffalo runners. I looked up old loading data and methods and my have I had fun! The old Sharp"s catalogs stated that the amount of powder in any given case depended on loading techniques i.e., use of drop tubes, speed of which powder is trickeled into the case, how much compression is applied etc. I began with both sawaged and cast paper patched bullets (for another story). At first I used only 70 grains of Goex FFG powder and about 1/8'' compression using a 500 grain bullet for about 1175 fps. To make a long story short, the following loads are my current passion on the 45 2.1 inch cartridge, but load development is never over. These loads are real quick killers on big game and where CE is found, it designates a cutted edge straight sided bullet of "unpatched" diameter of .440 (with 9lb. paper patches up to just .002 to .003 under BORE diam. like the old Creedmore type loadings) from Montana Precision Swaging out of Butte Montana.

45/85/500 CE Load: wrap bullet with 2 wraps of 9lb. paper with a short patch, apply wet (just laps over bottom of bullet without a tail, but use a concave base bullet =both best for accurracy). Finger apply a film of Red Rooster Liquid Bullet lube to dried patch (this step alone shrinks my groups in half). Use a drop tube of at least 24" to slowly dribble in 85 grains by weight of Swiss FFG powder into an "unsized" once fired Winchester case (with primer flash hole drilled out to .085) primed with a Federal 215 BR Magnum LR primer. Compress powder about 1/8"(heavy compression) and place a .030 card wad over the powder. Using the case as a cookie cutter, cut a grease cookie from any good BP lube 1/8" thick into the case. I have found DGL lube works great for this. This will leave just enough room to barely place a patched bullet into the case and then crimp it in, careful, just enough to hold the bullet in the case. This will not hurt accuracy as the bullet obturates from the kick of the BP and removes the crimp even before the bullet starts to move out of the case. Be sure and use a regular crimp, not a tapered crimp. The regular is more accurate for me. This load produces about 1300 fps and is a real quick killer on big game and produces a 1.5", 3 shot group at 100 yards. Two other loads that I will discuss in detail at another time involve lighter bullets. The first one is the old 330 grain Gould hollow point bullet over 80 grains of Swiss FFg. This load pushes the bullet out at about 1550 fps and is a good killer of pronghorn and deer! The second is a 380 grain CE paper patched bullet from Montana Precision Swaging and again over 80 grains of Swiss 2Fg powder. This one kills even better than the hollow point load. These loads make the old 45 Govt. case kill like a 45 2.4" or 2.6" loading. I wouldn't hesitate to go grizzly hunting with the 500 grain paper patch load over 85 grains of 2Fg Swiss powder. Have Fun!

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:12 am

Sounds like you are having a good time with this. Keep us informed.

kamotz · Post by **kamotz** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:49 pm

tom, Have you had the chance to examine patches after firing? Was their any evidence of blow- by, or gas cutting of the patch? I like the idea of using the slightly under bore sized patched bullets for ease of chambering, especially in fouled chambers. But dont want the gas cutting. Just wondering if the base expands fast enough to seal the bore and prevent this. As it is now with the PP load Im tinkering with is .448 before patching and .454 after is a PITA to chamber even before fouling. I probably dont have to tell you what happens when I want to un-chamber a loaded round.

Also, on your 45-110 load, how much of the bullet is actually seated in the case? Cheers kamotz

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:31 pm

Kamotz check youe PM. .............. Dean

tom ball · Post by **tom ball** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:47 pm

To Kamotz: I have shot perhaps thousands of these types of loads through the years and have never experienced any problems or signs of blow by. Probably only 1/8 to 1/16 of an inch of the bullet is in the case, but I have hunted with this type of bullet seating for many a hunt and they are a good stable cartridges. I have even carried them in a bullet belt. I generally need only one shot, but the loads I described are good for follow up shots. If the bore ever becomes too fowled up to resist chambering, I can also apply grease groove loads, even though they never kill as well as the paper patched cutted edge bullet loads do, bar none.

Hope this helps. Tom

kamotz · Post by **kamotz** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:05 pm

Thanks tom, thats what I was hopeing to hear.

Ill have to give those a try. I beleive Ive read an article somewhere staring you. With these same loads perhaps, very nice animals taken as well I might add.

Thanks again. kamotz