gain twist barrel torque

[bruce m]

the pros and cons of gaintwist?
the biggest problem with gaintwist comes with bore riding noses that bump up into the rifling.
with some bullets the rear is controlled by the rifling, and some the nose is controlled by the rifling.
this offers a lack of sameness that a straight twist will have on these bullets.
where they shine is with pp bullets.
quality confetti is a given.
the brits preferred gaintwist in their matchrifles, many of which had metford segmental rifling with rounded rather than square rifling.
possibly this was to get better patch clearing as the bullet left the barrel.
having used both types of rifling, I have concluded that for pp there is no advantage of one over the other.
for bore riding greasers straight twist is superior unless you do away with that nose shape that smokeless has forced upon us, the bore riding nose.
keep safe,
bruce.

[mdeland]

I can see what your talking about Bruce in nose riders wanting to out spin the base all the way up tube.

[bruce m]

that is it mike.
the problem comes when some do that and some do not.
a lack of sameness.
keep safe,
bruce.

[beltfed]

I would expect that even with a several band bodied bullet and no bore ride on the nose, there will be slight "skidding" involved- as the
front band tries to out spin the base band,etc.
with a gain twist.
That's what does such a good job shredding patches.
But, must not be too much of a problem - what with all those Schuetzen and Loverin style bullets having most of the length of the bullet
against the gain twist rifling and "front trying to out spin the bands behind it"
Seems like they get good accuracy regardless.....
The amount of gain experienced in the bore distance representing the engraved body length of a bullet ain't much
beltfed/arnie

[bruce m]

arnie,
those scheutzen bullets are a different deal.
the rifling marks on them are consistent from bullet to bullet, with the rifling grooves in the bullet all being wider at the front.
they shoot well in gaintwist.
the rifling marks are similar to pp bullets.
the twist in my barrel goes from 1/26 to 1/13.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Coltsmoke]

Charles Outler and I have already solved this problem with a boreriding bullet that has a swivel in the middle. Pics. will come later.

[bruce m]

coltsmoke,
will it stop the nose bumping into the rifling, and being unlubed be the cause of leading?
perhaps the swivel could include a shock absorber.
keep safe,
bruce.

[shovel80]

arnie,
those scheutzen bullets are a different deal.
the rifling marks on them are consistent from bullet to bullet, with the rifling grooves in the bullet all being wider at the front.
they shoot well in gaintwist.
the rifling marks are similar to pp bullets.
the twist in my barrel goes from 1/26 to 1/13.
keep safe,
bruce.

Not sure what you mean by "scheutzen bullets are a different deal.
the rifling marks on them are consistent from bullet to bullet, with the rifling grooves in the bullet all being wider at the front".

Terry

[Coltsmoke]

Bruce I does allow you to cast the front half of the bullet with harder lead than the rear of the bullet, this allows you to control bump up of the bore riding section, and that allows you to stop leading.

[mdeland]

I think that is how the old style Pickett bullets were made , soft bases and hard noses swaged together. I'll get out my copy of Ned Roberts as I think I remember him talking about that in his book. They were cast separately and then swaged or glued together as I remember it.

[gunlaker]

Mike I don't know about the picket bullets, but some of the later guns used two piece bullets swaged together. I'd be a neat trick to try in a long range PP rifle, but I don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

Chris.

[Coltsmoke]

Went into the backyard today to test and see which way a right hand twist rifle torques, into your cheek or away from your cheek. Had a witness stand behind to watch, 2 sets of eyes better than 1 set. The rifle recoiled up and twisted clockwise which pushed the top ot the stock away from my cheek, I shoot right handed. So the rifle tries to follow the motion of the bullet. There was no doubt about it to me or the person standing behind me. I fired 3 shots and it was easy to see each time.

[Kurt]

arnie,
those scheutzen bullets are a different deal.
the rifling marks on them are consistent from bullet to bullet, with the rifling grooves in the bullet all being wider at the front.
they shoot well in gaintwist.
the rifling marks are similar to pp bullets.
the twist in my barrel goes from 1/26 to 1/13.
keep safe,
bruce.

Land cuts wider in front is pretty much common with the PP or GG that I have recovered especially with the softer alloys shot in the regular rifling. I have never looked at a gain twist recovered bullet.
Dual alloy bullets are old tech. Not just for the RN Gov bullets but also for the spire.